Symmetries of the roots of this polynomial?
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
I have a polynomial equation in $x$ and $y$,
$$
(a-b)(xy+1) + (ab+1)(y-x) = 0.
$$
What transformation can act on $x$ and $y$ so that any point that satisfies this equation is mapped to another point that satisfies it? If there is a general way to find these transformations given a polynomial equation, that would also be nice to know.
group-theory polynomials roots transformation
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
I have a polynomial equation in $x$ and $y$,
$$
(a-b)(xy+1) + (ab+1)(y-x) = 0.
$$
What transformation can act on $x$ and $y$ so that any point that satisfies this equation is mapped to another point that satisfies it? If there is a general way to find these transformations given a polynomial equation, that would also be nice to know.
group-theory polynomials roots transformation
not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
– gt6989b
Nov 6 at 19:54
1
Interesting...why the group theory tag?
– Rushabh Mehta
Nov 6 at 19:56
@RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:09
1
@DisplayName Impostor!
– Display name
Nov 6 at 21:56
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
I have a polynomial equation in $x$ and $y$,
$$
(a-b)(xy+1) + (ab+1)(y-x) = 0.
$$
What transformation can act on $x$ and $y$ so that any point that satisfies this equation is mapped to another point that satisfies it? If there is a general way to find these transformations given a polynomial equation, that would also be nice to know.
group-theory polynomials roots transformation
I have a polynomial equation in $x$ and $y$,
$$
(a-b)(xy+1) + (ab+1)(y-x) = 0.
$$
What transformation can act on $x$ and $y$ so that any point that satisfies this equation is mapped to another point that satisfies it? If there is a general way to find these transformations given a polynomial equation, that would also be nice to know.
group-theory polynomials roots transformation
group-theory polynomials roots transformation
edited Nov 6 at 20:54
Batominovski
30.6k23187
30.6k23187
asked Nov 6 at 19:48
Display Name
1706
1706
not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
– gt6989b
Nov 6 at 19:54
1
Interesting...why the group theory tag?
– Rushabh Mehta
Nov 6 at 19:56
@RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:09
1
@DisplayName Impostor!
– Display name
Nov 6 at 21:56
add a comment |
not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
– gt6989b
Nov 6 at 19:54
1
Interesting...why the group theory tag?
– Rushabh Mehta
Nov 6 at 19:56
@RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:09
1
@DisplayName Impostor!
– Display name
Nov 6 at 21:56
not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
– gt6989b
Nov 6 at 19:54
not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
– gt6989b
Nov 6 at 19:54
1
1
Interesting...why the group theory tag?
– Rushabh Mehta
Nov 6 at 19:56
Interesting...why the group theory tag?
– Rushabh Mehta
Nov 6 at 19:56
@RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:09
@RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:09
1
1
@DisplayName Impostor!
– Display name
Nov 6 at 21:56
@DisplayName Impostor!
– Display name
Nov 6 at 21:56
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
8
down vote
accepted
You have $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ ($mathbb{R}$ can be replaced by $mathbb{C}$ in every occurrence in this answer) such that
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{x-y}{xy+1}.tag{*}$$
Let $c:=arctan(a)$, $d:=arctan(b)$, $u:=arctan(x)$, and $v:=arctan(y)$. Consider $c$, $d$, $u$, and $v$ as elements of $mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Then, we have
$$tan(c-d)=tan(u-v),.$$
Consequently, $c-d=u-v$.
Now, any transformation $T:mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}tomathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ of the form $$T(t)=t+qtext{ for all }tinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z},,$$ for some fixed constant $qinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ satisfies
$$T(t_1)-T(t_2)=t_1-t_2,$$
for all $t_1,t_2inmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Consider the function $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ sending $$smapsto tanbig(arctan(s)+qbig)=frac{s+p}{1-sp}text{ for all }sinmathbb{R},,$$
where $qinmathbb{R}$ is a fixed constant and $p:=tan(q)$. Then, if $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ satisfy (*), then
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{f(x)-f(y)}{f(x),f(y)+1}$$ too.
In fact, only functions $f$ of the given form satisfy the requirement. Thus, all solutions $(x,y)inmathbb{R}timesmathbb{R}$ to (*) is of the form
$$(x,y)=left(frac{a+p}{1-ap},frac{b+p}{1-bp}right)$$
for some $pinmathbb{R}$ such that $pneqdfrac{1}{a}$ and $pneq dfrac{1}{b}$.
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
the substitutions
$$ x = u + frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
$$ y = v - frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
take us to the hyperbola
$$ uv = C $$
where $C = C(a,b)$ is a constant.
One motion, for real $t neq 0,$ is
$$ (u,v) mapsto left(tu, frac{v}{t} right) $$
How did you find these substitutions?
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:21
2
@DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
– Will Jagy
Nov 6 at 20:28
With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
– Acccumulation
Nov 6 at 21:31
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
8
down vote
accepted
You have $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ ($mathbb{R}$ can be replaced by $mathbb{C}$ in every occurrence in this answer) such that
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{x-y}{xy+1}.tag{*}$$
Let $c:=arctan(a)$, $d:=arctan(b)$, $u:=arctan(x)$, and $v:=arctan(y)$. Consider $c$, $d$, $u$, and $v$ as elements of $mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Then, we have
$$tan(c-d)=tan(u-v),.$$
Consequently, $c-d=u-v$.
Now, any transformation $T:mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}tomathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ of the form $$T(t)=t+qtext{ for all }tinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z},,$$ for some fixed constant $qinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ satisfies
$$T(t_1)-T(t_2)=t_1-t_2,$$
for all $t_1,t_2inmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Consider the function $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ sending $$smapsto tanbig(arctan(s)+qbig)=frac{s+p}{1-sp}text{ for all }sinmathbb{R},,$$
where $qinmathbb{R}$ is a fixed constant and $p:=tan(q)$. Then, if $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ satisfy (*), then
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{f(x)-f(y)}{f(x),f(y)+1}$$ too.
In fact, only functions $f$ of the given form satisfy the requirement. Thus, all solutions $(x,y)inmathbb{R}timesmathbb{R}$ to (*) is of the form
$$(x,y)=left(frac{a+p}{1-ap},frac{b+p}{1-bp}right)$$
for some $pinmathbb{R}$ such that $pneqdfrac{1}{a}$ and $pneq dfrac{1}{b}$.
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
accepted
You have $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ ($mathbb{R}$ can be replaced by $mathbb{C}$ in every occurrence in this answer) such that
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{x-y}{xy+1}.tag{*}$$
Let $c:=arctan(a)$, $d:=arctan(b)$, $u:=arctan(x)$, and $v:=arctan(y)$. Consider $c$, $d$, $u$, and $v$ as elements of $mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Then, we have
$$tan(c-d)=tan(u-v),.$$
Consequently, $c-d=u-v$.
Now, any transformation $T:mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}tomathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ of the form $$T(t)=t+qtext{ for all }tinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z},,$$ for some fixed constant $qinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ satisfies
$$T(t_1)-T(t_2)=t_1-t_2,$$
for all $t_1,t_2inmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Consider the function $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ sending $$smapsto tanbig(arctan(s)+qbig)=frac{s+p}{1-sp}text{ for all }sinmathbb{R},,$$
where $qinmathbb{R}$ is a fixed constant and $p:=tan(q)$. Then, if $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ satisfy (*), then
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{f(x)-f(y)}{f(x),f(y)+1}$$ too.
In fact, only functions $f$ of the given form satisfy the requirement. Thus, all solutions $(x,y)inmathbb{R}timesmathbb{R}$ to (*) is of the form
$$(x,y)=left(frac{a+p}{1-ap},frac{b+p}{1-bp}right)$$
for some $pinmathbb{R}$ such that $pneqdfrac{1}{a}$ and $pneq dfrac{1}{b}$.
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
accepted
up vote
8
down vote
accepted
You have $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ ($mathbb{R}$ can be replaced by $mathbb{C}$ in every occurrence in this answer) such that
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{x-y}{xy+1}.tag{*}$$
Let $c:=arctan(a)$, $d:=arctan(b)$, $u:=arctan(x)$, and $v:=arctan(y)$. Consider $c$, $d$, $u$, and $v$ as elements of $mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Then, we have
$$tan(c-d)=tan(u-v),.$$
Consequently, $c-d=u-v$.
Now, any transformation $T:mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}tomathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ of the form $$T(t)=t+qtext{ for all }tinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z},,$$ for some fixed constant $qinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ satisfies
$$T(t_1)-T(t_2)=t_1-t_2,$$
for all $t_1,t_2inmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Consider the function $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ sending $$smapsto tanbig(arctan(s)+qbig)=frac{s+p}{1-sp}text{ for all }sinmathbb{R},,$$
where $qinmathbb{R}$ is a fixed constant and $p:=tan(q)$. Then, if $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ satisfy (*), then
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{f(x)-f(y)}{f(x),f(y)+1}$$ too.
In fact, only functions $f$ of the given form satisfy the requirement. Thus, all solutions $(x,y)inmathbb{R}timesmathbb{R}$ to (*) is of the form
$$(x,y)=left(frac{a+p}{1-ap},frac{b+p}{1-bp}right)$$
for some $pinmathbb{R}$ such that $pneqdfrac{1}{a}$ and $pneq dfrac{1}{b}$.
You have $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ ($mathbb{R}$ can be replaced by $mathbb{C}$ in every occurrence in this answer) such that
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{x-y}{xy+1}.tag{*}$$
Let $c:=arctan(a)$, $d:=arctan(b)$, $u:=arctan(x)$, and $v:=arctan(y)$. Consider $c$, $d$, $u$, and $v$ as elements of $mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Then, we have
$$tan(c-d)=tan(u-v),.$$
Consequently, $c-d=u-v$.
Now, any transformation $T:mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}tomathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ of the form $$T(t)=t+qtext{ for all }tinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z},,$$ for some fixed constant $qinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ satisfies
$$T(t_1)-T(t_2)=t_1-t_2,$$
for all $t_1,t_2inmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Consider the function $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ sending $$smapsto tanbig(arctan(s)+qbig)=frac{s+p}{1-sp}text{ for all }sinmathbb{R},,$$
where $qinmathbb{R}$ is a fixed constant and $p:=tan(q)$. Then, if $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ satisfy (*), then
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{f(x)-f(y)}{f(x),f(y)+1}$$ too.
In fact, only functions $f$ of the given form satisfy the requirement. Thus, all solutions $(x,y)inmathbb{R}timesmathbb{R}$ to (*) is of the form
$$(x,y)=left(frac{a+p}{1-ap},frac{b+p}{1-bp}right)$$
for some $pinmathbb{R}$ such that $pneqdfrac{1}{a}$ and $pneq dfrac{1}{b}$.
edited Nov 6 at 21:24
answered Nov 6 at 20:28
Batominovski
30.6k23187
30.6k23187
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
the substitutions
$$ x = u + frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
$$ y = v - frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
take us to the hyperbola
$$ uv = C $$
where $C = C(a,b)$ is a constant.
One motion, for real $t neq 0,$ is
$$ (u,v) mapsto left(tu, frac{v}{t} right) $$
How did you find these substitutions?
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:21
2
@DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
– Will Jagy
Nov 6 at 20:28
With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
– Acccumulation
Nov 6 at 21:31
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
the substitutions
$$ x = u + frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
$$ y = v - frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
take us to the hyperbola
$$ uv = C $$
where $C = C(a,b)$ is a constant.
One motion, for real $t neq 0,$ is
$$ (u,v) mapsto left(tu, frac{v}{t} right) $$
How did you find these substitutions?
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:21
2
@DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
– Will Jagy
Nov 6 at 20:28
With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
– Acccumulation
Nov 6 at 21:31
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
the substitutions
$$ x = u + frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
$$ y = v - frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
take us to the hyperbola
$$ uv = C $$
where $C = C(a,b)$ is a constant.
One motion, for real $t neq 0,$ is
$$ (u,v) mapsto left(tu, frac{v}{t} right) $$
the substitutions
$$ x = u + frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
$$ y = v - frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
take us to the hyperbola
$$ uv = C $$
where $C = C(a,b)$ is a constant.
One motion, for real $t neq 0,$ is
$$ (u,v) mapsto left(tu, frac{v}{t} right) $$
answered Nov 6 at 20:20
Will Jagy
100k597198
100k597198
How did you find these substitutions?
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:21
2
@DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
– Will Jagy
Nov 6 at 20:28
With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
– Acccumulation
Nov 6 at 21:31
add a comment |
How did you find these substitutions?
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:21
2
@DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
– Will Jagy
Nov 6 at 20:28
With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
– Acccumulation
Nov 6 at 21:31
How did you find these substitutions?
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:21
How did you find these substitutions?
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:21
2
2
@DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
– Will Jagy
Nov 6 at 20:28
@DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
– Will Jagy
Nov 6 at 20:28
With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
– Acccumulation
Nov 6 at 21:31
With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
– Acccumulation
Nov 6 at 21:31
add a comment |
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not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
– gt6989b
Nov 6 at 19:54
1
Interesting...why the group theory tag?
– Rushabh Mehta
Nov 6 at 19:56
@RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:09
1
@DisplayName Impostor!
– Display name
Nov 6 at 21:56