Symmetries of the roots of this polynomial?











up vote
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favorite
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I have a polynomial equation in $x$ and $y$,



$$
(a-b)(xy+1) + (ab+1)(y-x) = 0.
$$

What transformation can act on $x$ and $y$ so that any point that satisfies this equation is mapped to another point that satisfies it? If there is a general way to find these transformations given a polynomial equation, that would also be nice to know.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
    – gt6989b
    Nov 6 at 19:54






  • 1




    Interesting...why the group theory tag?
    – Rushabh Mehta
    Nov 6 at 19:56










  • @RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
    – Display Name
    Nov 6 at 20:09








  • 1




    @DisplayName Impostor!
    – Display name
    Nov 6 at 21:56















up vote
3
down vote

favorite
2












I have a polynomial equation in $x$ and $y$,



$$
(a-b)(xy+1) + (ab+1)(y-x) = 0.
$$

What transformation can act on $x$ and $y$ so that any point that satisfies this equation is mapped to another point that satisfies it? If there is a general way to find these transformations given a polynomial equation, that would also be nice to know.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
    – gt6989b
    Nov 6 at 19:54






  • 1




    Interesting...why the group theory tag?
    – Rushabh Mehta
    Nov 6 at 19:56










  • @RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
    – Display Name
    Nov 6 at 20:09








  • 1




    @DisplayName Impostor!
    – Display name
    Nov 6 at 21:56













up vote
3
down vote

favorite
2









up vote
3
down vote

favorite
2






2





I have a polynomial equation in $x$ and $y$,



$$
(a-b)(xy+1) + (ab+1)(y-x) = 0.
$$

What transformation can act on $x$ and $y$ so that any point that satisfies this equation is mapped to another point that satisfies it? If there is a general way to find these transformations given a polynomial equation, that would also be nice to know.










share|cite|improve this question















I have a polynomial equation in $x$ and $y$,



$$
(a-b)(xy+1) + (ab+1)(y-x) = 0.
$$

What transformation can act on $x$ and $y$ so that any point that satisfies this equation is mapped to another point that satisfies it? If there is a general way to find these transformations given a polynomial equation, that would also be nice to know.







group-theory polynomials roots transformation






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Nov 6 at 20:54









Batominovski

30.6k23187




30.6k23187










asked Nov 6 at 19:48









Display Name

1706




1706












  • not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
    – gt6989b
    Nov 6 at 19:54






  • 1




    Interesting...why the group theory tag?
    – Rushabh Mehta
    Nov 6 at 19:56










  • @RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
    – Display Name
    Nov 6 at 20:09








  • 1




    @DisplayName Impostor!
    – Display name
    Nov 6 at 21:56


















  • not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
    – gt6989b
    Nov 6 at 19:54






  • 1




    Interesting...why the group theory tag?
    – Rushabh Mehta
    Nov 6 at 19:56










  • @RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
    – Display Name
    Nov 6 at 20:09








  • 1




    @DisplayName Impostor!
    – Display name
    Nov 6 at 21:56
















not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
– gt6989b
Nov 6 at 19:54




not sure if this will work, but perhaps in equation $f(x,y) = g(x,y)$ you can transform $f$ to $g$ and vice versa?
– gt6989b
Nov 6 at 19:54




1




1




Interesting...why the group theory tag?
– Rushabh Mehta
Nov 6 at 19:56




Interesting...why the group theory tag?
– Rushabh Mehta
Nov 6 at 19:56












@RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:09






@RushabhMehta I think the transformations I'm looking for should form a continuous group, and I know there are a lot of methods for finding those. If I had seen a "groups" tag without a "-theory" modifier I would have used it.
– Display Name
Nov 6 at 20:09






1




1




@DisplayName Impostor!
– Display name
Nov 6 at 21:56




@DisplayName Impostor!
– Display name
Nov 6 at 21:56










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
8
down vote



accepted










You have $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ ($mathbb{R}$ can be replaced by $mathbb{C}$ in every occurrence in this answer) such that
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{x-y}{xy+1}.tag{*}$$
Let $c:=arctan(a)$, $d:=arctan(b)$, $u:=arctan(x)$, and $v:=arctan(y)$. Consider $c$, $d$, $u$, and $v$ as elements of $mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Then, we have
$$tan(c-d)=tan(u-v),.$$
Consequently, $c-d=u-v$.



Now, any transformation $T:mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}tomathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ of the form $$T(t)=t+qtext{ for all }tinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z},,$$ for some fixed constant $qinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ satisfies
$$T(t_1)-T(t_2)=t_1-t_2,$$
for all $t_1,t_2inmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Consider the function $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ sending $$smapsto tanbig(arctan(s)+qbig)=frac{s+p}{1-sp}text{ for all }sinmathbb{R},,$$
where $qinmathbb{R}$ is a fixed constant and $p:=tan(q)$. Then, if $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ satisfy (*), then
$$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{f(x)-f(y)}{f(x),f(y)+1}$$ too.



In fact, only functions $f$ of the given form satisfy the requirement. Thus, all solutions $(x,y)inmathbb{R}timesmathbb{R}$ to (*) is of the form
$$(x,y)=left(frac{a+p}{1-ap},frac{b+p}{1-bp}right)$$
for some $pinmathbb{R}$ such that $pneqdfrac{1}{a}$ and $pneq dfrac{1}{b}$.






share|cite|improve this answer






























    up vote
    5
    down vote













    the substitutions
    $$ x = u + frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
    $$ y = v - frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
    take us to the hyperbola
    $$ uv = C $$
    where $C = C(a,b)$ is a constant.



    One motion, for real $t neq 0,$ is
    $$ (u,v) mapsto left(tu, frac{v}{t} right) $$






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • How did you find these substitutions?
      – Display Name
      Nov 6 at 20:21






    • 2




      @DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
      – Will Jagy
      Nov 6 at 20:28










    • With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
      – Acccumulation
      Nov 6 at 21:31











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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    8
    down vote



    accepted










    You have $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ ($mathbb{R}$ can be replaced by $mathbb{C}$ in every occurrence in this answer) such that
    $$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{x-y}{xy+1}.tag{*}$$
    Let $c:=arctan(a)$, $d:=arctan(b)$, $u:=arctan(x)$, and $v:=arctan(y)$. Consider $c$, $d$, $u$, and $v$ as elements of $mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Then, we have
    $$tan(c-d)=tan(u-v),.$$
    Consequently, $c-d=u-v$.



    Now, any transformation $T:mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}tomathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ of the form $$T(t)=t+qtext{ for all }tinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z},,$$ for some fixed constant $qinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ satisfies
    $$T(t_1)-T(t_2)=t_1-t_2,$$
    for all $t_1,t_2inmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Consider the function $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ sending $$smapsto tanbig(arctan(s)+qbig)=frac{s+p}{1-sp}text{ for all }sinmathbb{R},,$$
    where $qinmathbb{R}$ is a fixed constant and $p:=tan(q)$. Then, if $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ satisfy (*), then
    $$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{f(x)-f(y)}{f(x),f(y)+1}$$ too.



    In fact, only functions $f$ of the given form satisfy the requirement. Thus, all solutions $(x,y)inmathbb{R}timesmathbb{R}$ to (*) is of the form
    $$(x,y)=left(frac{a+p}{1-ap},frac{b+p}{1-bp}right)$$
    for some $pinmathbb{R}$ such that $pneqdfrac{1}{a}$ and $pneq dfrac{1}{b}$.






    share|cite|improve this answer



























      up vote
      8
      down vote



      accepted










      You have $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ ($mathbb{R}$ can be replaced by $mathbb{C}$ in every occurrence in this answer) such that
      $$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{x-y}{xy+1}.tag{*}$$
      Let $c:=arctan(a)$, $d:=arctan(b)$, $u:=arctan(x)$, and $v:=arctan(y)$. Consider $c$, $d$, $u$, and $v$ as elements of $mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Then, we have
      $$tan(c-d)=tan(u-v),.$$
      Consequently, $c-d=u-v$.



      Now, any transformation $T:mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}tomathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ of the form $$T(t)=t+qtext{ for all }tinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z},,$$ for some fixed constant $qinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ satisfies
      $$T(t_1)-T(t_2)=t_1-t_2,$$
      for all $t_1,t_2inmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Consider the function $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ sending $$smapsto tanbig(arctan(s)+qbig)=frac{s+p}{1-sp}text{ for all }sinmathbb{R},,$$
      where $qinmathbb{R}$ is a fixed constant and $p:=tan(q)$. Then, if $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ satisfy (*), then
      $$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{f(x)-f(y)}{f(x),f(y)+1}$$ too.



      In fact, only functions $f$ of the given form satisfy the requirement. Thus, all solutions $(x,y)inmathbb{R}timesmathbb{R}$ to (*) is of the form
      $$(x,y)=left(frac{a+p}{1-ap},frac{b+p}{1-bp}right)$$
      for some $pinmathbb{R}$ such that $pneqdfrac{1}{a}$ and $pneq dfrac{1}{b}$.






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        8
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        8
        down vote



        accepted






        You have $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ ($mathbb{R}$ can be replaced by $mathbb{C}$ in every occurrence in this answer) such that
        $$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{x-y}{xy+1}.tag{*}$$
        Let $c:=arctan(a)$, $d:=arctan(b)$, $u:=arctan(x)$, and $v:=arctan(y)$. Consider $c$, $d$, $u$, and $v$ as elements of $mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Then, we have
        $$tan(c-d)=tan(u-v),.$$
        Consequently, $c-d=u-v$.



        Now, any transformation $T:mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}tomathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ of the form $$T(t)=t+qtext{ for all }tinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z},,$$ for some fixed constant $qinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ satisfies
        $$T(t_1)-T(t_2)=t_1-t_2,$$
        for all $t_1,t_2inmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Consider the function $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ sending $$smapsto tanbig(arctan(s)+qbig)=frac{s+p}{1-sp}text{ for all }sinmathbb{R},,$$
        where $qinmathbb{R}$ is a fixed constant and $p:=tan(q)$. Then, if $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ satisfy (*), then
        $$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{f(x)-f(y)}{f(x),f(y)+1}$$ too.



        In fact, only functions $f$ of the given form satisfy the requirement. Thus, all solutions $(x,y)inmathbb{R}timesmathbb{R}$ to (*) is of the form
        $$(x,y)=left(frac{a+p}{1-ap},frac{b+p}{1-bp}right)$$
        for some $pinmathbb{R}$ such that $pneqdfrac{1}{a}$ and $pneq dfrac{1}{b}$.






        share|cite|improve this answer














        You have $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ ($mathbb{R}$ can be replaced by $mathbb{C}$ in every occurrence in this answer) such that
        $$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{x-y}{xy+1}.tag{*}$$
        Let $c:=arctan(a)$, $d:=arctan(b)$, $u:=arctan(x)$, and $v:=arctan(y)$. Consider $c$, $d$, $u$, and $v$ as elements of $mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Then, we have
        $$tan(c-d)=tan(u-v),.$$
        Consequently, $c-d=u-v$.



        Now, any transformation $T:mathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}tomathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ of the form $$T(t)=t+qtext{ for all }tinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z},,$$ for some fixed constant $qinmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$ satisfies
        $$T(t_1)-T(t_2)=t_1-t_2,$$
        for all $t_1,t_2inmathbb{R}/pimathbb{Z}$. Consider the function $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ sending $$smapsto tanbig(arctan(s)+qbig)=frac{s+p}{1-sp}text{ for all }sinmathbb{R},,$$
        where $qinmathbb{R}$ is a fixed constant and $p:=tan(q)$. Then, if $a,b,x,yinmathbb{R}$ satisfy (*), then
        $$frac{a-b}{ab+1}=frac{f(x)-f(y)}{f(x),f(y)+1}$$ too.



        In fact, only functions $f$ of the given form satisfy the requirement. Thus, all solutions $(x,y)inmathbb{R}timesmathbb{R}$ to (*) is of the form
        $$(x,y)=left(frac{a+p}{1-ap},frac{b+p}{1-bp}right)$$
        for some $pinmathbb{R}$ such that $pneqdfrac{1}{a}$ and $pneq dfrac{1}{b}$.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Nov 6 at 21:24

























        answered Nov 6 at 20:28









        Batominovski

        30.6k23187




        30.6k23187






















            up vote
            5
            down vote













            the substitutions
            $$ x = u + frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
            $$ y = v - frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
            take us to the hyperbola
            $$ uv = C $$
            where $C = C(a,b)$ is a constant.



            One motion, for real $t neq 0,$ is
            $$ (u,v) mapsto left(tu, frac{v}{t} right) $$






            share|cite|improve this answer





















            • How did you find these substitutions?
              – Display Name
              Nov 6 at 20:21






            • 2




              @DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
              – Will Jagy
              Nov 6 at 20:28










            • With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
              – Acccumulation
              Nov 6 at 21:31















            up vote
            5
            down vote













            the substitutions
            $$ x = u + frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
            $$ y = v - frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
            take us to the hyperbola
            $$ uv = C $$
            where $C = C(a,b)$ is a constant.



            One motion, for real $t neq 0,$ is
            $$ (u,v) mapsto left(tu, frac{v}{t} right) $$






            share|cite|improve this answer





















            • How did you find these substitutions?
              – Display Name
              Nov 6 at 20:21






            • 2




              @DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
              – Will Jagy
              Nov 6 at 20:28










            • With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
              – Acccumulation
              Nov 6 at 21:31













            up vote
            5
            down vote










            up vote
            5
            down vote









            the substitutions
            $$ x = u + frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
            $$ y = v - frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
            take us to the hyperbola
            $$ uv = C $$
            where $C = C(a,b)$ is a constant.



            One motion, for real $t neq 0,$ is
            $$ (u,v) mapsto left(tu, frac{v}{t} right) $$






            share|cite|improve this answer












            the substitutions
            $$ x = u + frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
            $$ y = v - frac{ab+1}{b-a} ; , ; $$
            take us to the hyperbola
            $$ uv = C $$
            where $C = C(a,b)$ is a constant.



            One motion, for real $t neq 0,$ is
            $$ (u,v) mapsto left(tu, frac{v}{t} right) $$







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Nov 6 at 20:20









            Will Jagy

            100k597198




            100k597198












            • How did you find these substitutions?
              – Display Name
              Nov 6 at 20:21






            • 2




              @DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
              – Will Jagy
              Nov 6 at 20:28










            • With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
              – Acccumulation
              Nov 6 at 21:31


















            • How did you find these substitutions?
              – Display Name
              Nov 6 at 20:21






            • 2




              @DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
              – Will Jagy
              Nov 6 at 20:28










            • With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
              – Acccumulation
              Nov 6 at 21:31
















            How did you find these substitutions?
            – Display Name
            Nov 6 at 20:21




            How did you find these substitutions?
            – Display Name
            Nov 6 at 20:21




            2




            2




            @DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
            – Will Jagy
            Nov 6 at 20:28




            @DisplayName the center of a hyperbola is the point where the gradient of the defining polynomial is zero. This is a pure translation. Your question falls under projective geometry, projective transformations take conic sections to conic sections.
            – Will Jagy
            Nov 6 at 20:28












            With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
            – Acccumulation
            Nov 6 at 21:31




            With the special case of a=b leading to a line.
            – Acccumulation
            Nov 6 at 21:31


















             

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