Why do hotel chains use so many different names for the same class? [on hold]
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My question doesn't involve names that stem from mergers and acquisitions. Keeping these names is less costly than replacing them, like replacing Ritz-Carlton, Sheraton, Delta, Westin with Marriott.
Rather, why did Marriott commence Fairfield Inn in 1987, when it founded Courtyard in 1982?
Similarly, Hilton founded Hilton Garden Inn in 1996, and acquired Hampton in 1999. Why then did it commence Tru by Hilton in 2016?
The screenshot beneath is from Hilton and Marriott.
hotels
put on hold as too broad by Michael Hampton, Giorgio, gmauch, David Richerby, Ali Awan Nov 6 at 9:19
Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
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up vote
-1
down vote
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My question doesn't involve names that stem from mergers and acquisitions. Keeping these names is less costly than replacing them, like replacing Ritz-Carlton, Sheraton, Delta, Westin with Marriott.
Rather, why did Marriott commence Fairfield Inn in 1987, when it founded Courtyard in 1982?
Similarly, Hilton founded Hilton Garden Inn in 1996, and acquired Hampton in 1999. Why then did it commence Tru by Hilton in 2016?
The screenshot beneath is from Hilton and Marriott.
hotels
put on hold as too broad by Michael Hampton, Giorgio, gmauch, David Richerby, Ali Awan Nov 6 at 9:19
Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
In all these cases the Wikipedia pages appear to explain clearly the reasons behind each of these hotel chains and how they differ. Do you have a specific question not answered there?
– Michael Hampton
Nov 4 at 19:51
The pages you are linking to, all explain that the 'product labels' are placed on quite distinct service packages. Why do you describe these as 'same class'?
– Tor-Einar Jarnbjo
Nov 4 at 19:54
10
Why do Nestlé and Mars produce so many candy bars that are just slightly different combinations of chocolate, caramel, and nuts?
– choster
Nov 4 at 20:55
@MichaelHampton Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02
@Tor-EinarJarnbjo Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02
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up vote
-1
down vote
favorite
up vote
-1
down vote
favorite
My question doesn't involve names that stem from mergers and acquisitions. Keeping these names is less costly than replacing them, like replacing Ritz-Carlton, Sheraton, Delta, Westin with Marriott.
Rather, why did Marriott commence Fairfield Inn in 1987, when it founded Courtyard in 1982?
Similarly, Hilton founded Hilton Garden Inn in 1996, and acquired Hampton in 1999. Why then did it commence Tru by Hilton in 2016?
The screenshot beneath is from Hilton and Marriott.
hotels
My question doesn't involve names that stem from mergers and acquisitions. Keeping these names is less costly than replacing them, like replacing Ritz-Carlton, Sheraton, Delta, Westin with Marriott.
Rather, why did Marriott commence Fairfield Inn in 1987, when it founded Courtyard in 1982?
Similarly, Hilton founded Hilton Garden Inn in 1996, and acquired Hampton in 1999. Why then did it commence Tru by Hilton in 2016?
The screenshot beneath is from Hilton and Marriott.
hotels
hotels
edited Nov 4 at 22:12
asked Nov 4 at 19:23
Greek - Area 51 Proposal
3,58662044
3,58662044
put on hold as too broad by Michael Hampton, Giorgio, gmauch, David Richerby, Ali Awan Nov 6 at 9:19
Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
put on hold as too broad by Michael Hampton, Giorgio, gmauch, David Richerby, Ali Awan Nov 6 at 9:19
Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
In all these cases the Wikipedia pages appear to explain clearly the reasons behind each of these hotel chains and how they differ. Do you have a specific question not answered there?
– Michael Hampton
Nov 4 at 19:51
The pages you are linking to, all explain that the 'product labels' are placed on quite distinct service packages. Why do you describe these as 'same class'?
– Tor-Einar Jarnbjo
Nov 4 at 19:54
10
Why do Nestlé and Mars produce so many candy bars that are just slightly different combinations of chocolate, caramel, and nuts?
– choster
Nov 4 at 20:55
@MichaelHampton Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02
@Tor-EinarJarnbjo Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02
|
show 2 more comments
In all these cases the Wikipedia pages appear to explain clearly the reasons behind each of these hotel chains and how they differ. Do you have a specific question not answered there?
– Michael Hampton
Nov 4 at 19:51
The pages you are linking to, all explain that the 'product labels' are placed on quite distinct service packages. Why do you describe these as 'same class'?
– Tor-Einar Jarnbjo
Nov 4 at 19:54
10
Why do Nestlé and Mars produce so many candy bars that are just slightly different combinations of chocolate, caramel, and nuts?
– choster
Nov 4 at 20:55
@MichaelHampton Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02
@Tor-EinarJarnbjo Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02
In all these cases the Wikipedia pages appear to explain clearly the reasons behind each of these hotel chains and how they differ. Do you have a specific question not answered there?
– Michael Hampton
Nov 4 at 19:51
In all these cases the Wikipedia pages appear to explain clearly the reasons behind each of these hotel chains and how they differ. Do you have a specific question not answered there?
– Michael Hampton
Nov 4 at 19:51
The pages you are linking to, all explain that the 'product labels' are placed on quite distinct service packages. Why do you describe these as 'same class'?
– Tor-Einar Jarnbjo
Nov 4 at 19:54
The pages you are linking to, all explain that the 'product labels' are placed on quite distinct service packages. Why do you describe these as 'same class'?
– Tor-Einar Jarnbjo
Nov 4 at 19:54
10
10
Why do Nestlé and Mars produce so many candy bars that are just slightly different combinations of chocolate, caramel, and nuts?
– choster
Nov 4 at 20:55
Why do Nestlé and Mars produce so many candy bars that are just slightly different combinations of chocolate, caramel, and nuts?
– choster
Nov 4 at 20:55
@MichaelHampton Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02
@MichaelHampton Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02
@Tor-EinarJarnbjo Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02
@Tor-EinarJarnbjo Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02
|
show 2 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
The hotel brands have differences in amenities within the class. To use your Hilton example, from lower to higher service, it goes Tru (smaller, more basic rooms), Hampton Inn (middle of the range, no food operation allowed outside free breakfast), then Hilton Garden Inn (requires full-service restaurant, no free breakfast). There's also some minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves.
To the owner, requirements like a restaurant and room sizes can have a significant impact on profitability, given the location. Mass-market hotels are built on the principle of predictability, and it's critical to convey the level of service up front.
Second, the majority of hotels are franchises, so to the franchisee, their hotel does compete against a hotel from the same brand. As in all franchises, a hotel is granted exclusivity over their brand for a certain area. By making different brands with different amenities, the chain can offer more hotels, and rooms, in the same market, while limiting to a certain extent the competition between franchisees.
Thanks. I can spot the differences now. But do guests truly pay attention to "minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves" and the food that's probably average at Hilton Garden Inns?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:13
3
@Greek-Area51Proposal In-house food is big for business travelers who just want to eat with minimal fuss, and free breakfast is important for families and leisure travelers. You can see how they try to segment those markets. And you'd be surprised how frequent travelers notice small things; I personally really like the smell of the soap at my preferred brand.
– user71659
Nov 4 at 22:19
2
@Greek-Area51Proposal Guests may not pay that much attention (some certainly will to whether food is available), but hotel chains have two types of customers: guests and franchisees. Even if a guest doesn't care about something, the owner of a new property cares whether they have to buy microwaves and fridges, and they really care about how large the rooms have to be or whether they need to operate a full-time restaurant.
– Zach Lipton
Nov 4 at 22:20
Also keep in mind that business travelers are usually price insensitive to a certain point, since the company pays for all their expenses. Therefore this segment of travelers will often choose their favorite hotel brand, even if it's more expensive on a given day. These are the best kind or customers and having more brands ensures more opportunities for attracting loyal customers.
– JonathanReez♦
Nov 5 at 3:23
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
The Hotel market is, like many other markets, splintered into many different brand names, and consumer don't follow consolidations well.
In other words, a single brand name is not able to capture more than 3 or 5% of the market, no matter how great they are.
Therefore, offering multiple brand names allows the chain behind it to grasp a larger share of the overall market. Consolidating all Hilton brands in for example two brands would reduce their market share over the next years significantly; obviously not something Hilton is interested in.
Other well-known examples are detergents (basically the complete detergent market consist of two companies, but they need to offer several dozens of 'brands' to defend their market share); sweets; and so on.
In addition, each brand tries to cater to a slightly different market segment, as customers have different priorities.
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
The hotel brands have differences in amenities within the class. To use your Hilton example, from lower to higher service, it goes Tru (smaller, more basic rooms), Hampton Inn (middle of the range, no food operation allowed outside free breakfast), then Hilton Garden Inn (requires full-service restaurant, no free breakfast). There's also some minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves.
To the owner, requirements like a restaurant and room sizes can have a significant impact on profitability, given the location. Mass-market hotels are built on the principle of predictability, and it's critical to convey the level of service up front.
Second, the majority of hotels are franchises, so to the franchisee, their hotel does compete against a hotel from the same brand. As in all franchises, a hotel is granted exclusivity over their brand for a certain area. By making different brands with different amenities, the chain can offer more hotels, and rooms, in the same market, while limiting to a certain extent the competition between franchisees.
Thanks. I can spot the differences now. But do guests truly pay attention to "minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves" and the food that's probably average at Hilton Garden Inns?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:13
3
@Greek-Area51Proposal In-house food is big for business travelers who just want to eat with minimal fuss, and free breakfast is important for families and leisure travelers. You can see how they try to segment those markets. And you'd be surprised how frequent travelers notice small things; I personally really like the smell of the soap at my preferred brand.
– user71659
Nov 4 at 22:19
2
@Greek-Area51Proposal Guests may not pay that much attention (some certainly will to whether food is available), but hotel chains have two types of customers: guests and franchisees. Even if a guest doesn't care about something, the owner of a new property cares whether they have to buy microwaves and fridges, and they really care about how large the rooms have to be or whether they need to operate a full-time restaurant.
– Zach Lipton
Nov 4 at 22:20
Also keep in mind that business travelers are usually price insensitive to a certain point, since the company pays for all their expenses. Therefore this segment of travelers will often choose their favorite hotel brand, even if it's more expensive on a given day. These are the best kind or customers and having more brands ensures more opportunities for attracting loyal customers.
– JonathanReez♦
Nov 5 at 3:23
add a comment |
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
The hotel brands have differences in amenities within the class. To use your Hilton example, from lower to higher service, it goes Tru (smaller, more basic rooms), Hampton Inn (middle of the range, no food operation allowed outside free breakfast), then Hilton Garden Inn (requires full-service restaurant, no free breakfast). There's also some minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves.
To the owner, requirements like a restaurant and room sizes can have a significant impact on profitability, given the location. Mass-market hotels are built on the principle of predictability, and it's critical to convey the level of service up front.
Second, the majority of hotels are franchises, so to the franchisee, their hotel does compete against a hotel from the same brand. As in all franchises, a hotel is granted exclusivity over their brand for a certain area. By making different brands with different amenities, the chain can offer more hotels, and rooms, in the same market, while limiting to a certain extent the competition between franchisees.
Thanks. I can spot the differences now. But do guests truly pay attention to "minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves" and the food that's probably average at Hilton Garden Inns?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:13
3
@Greek-Area51Proposal In-house food is big for business travelers who just want to eat with minimal fuss, and free breakfast is important for families and leisure travelers. You can see how they try to segment those markets. And you'd be surprised how frequent travelers notice small things; I personally really like the smell of the soap at my preferred brand.
– user71659
Nov 4 at 22:19
2
@Greek-Area51Proposal Guests may not pay that much attention (some certainly will to whether food is available), but hotel chains have two types of customers: guests and franchisees. Even if a guest doesn't care about something, the owner of a new property cares whether they have to buy microwaves and fridges, and they really care about how large the rooms have to be or whether they need to operate a full-time restaurant.
– Zach Lipton
Nov 4 at 22:20
Also keep in mind that business travelers are usually price insensitive to a certain point, since the company pays for all their expenses. Therefore this segment of travelers will often choose their favorite hotel brand, even if it's more expensive on a given day. These are the best kind or customers and having more brands ensures more opportunities for attracting loyal customers.
– JonathanReez♦
Nov 5 at 3:23
add a comment |
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
up vote
12
down vote
accepted
The hotel brands have differences in amenities within the class. To use your Hilton example, from lower to higher service, it goes Tru (smaller, more basic rooms), Hampton Inn (middle of the range, no food operation allowed outside free breakfast), then Hilton Garden Inn (requires full-service restaurant, no free breakfast). There's also some minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves.
To the owner, requirements like a restaurant and room sizes can have a significant impact on profitability, given the location. Mass-market hotels are built on the principle of predictability, and it's critical to convey the level of service up front.
Second, the majority of hotels are franchises, so to the franchisee, their hotel does compete against a hotel from the same brand. As in all franchises, a hotel is granted exclusivity over their brand for a certain area. By making different brands with different amenities, the chain can offer more hotels, and rooms, in the same market, while limiting to a certain extent the competition between franchisees.
The hotel brands have differences in amenities within the class. To use your Hilton example, from lower to higher service, it goes Tru (smaller, more basic rooms), Hampton Inn (middle of the range, no food operation allowed outside free breakfast), then Hilton Garden Inn (requires full-service restaurant, no free breakfast). There's also some minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves.
To the owner, requirements like a restaurant and room sizes can have a significant impact on profitability, given the location. Mass-market hotels are built on the principle of predictability, and it's critical to convey the level of service up front.
Second, the majority of hotels are franchises, so to the franchisee, their hotel does compete against a hotel from the same brand. As in all franchises, a hotel is granted exclusivity over their brand for a certain area. By making different brands with different amenities, the chain can offer more hotels, and rooms, in the same market, while limiting to a certain extent the competition between franchisees.
answered Nov 4 at 19:56
user71659
1,1131716
1,1131716
Thanks. I can spot the differences now. But do guests truly pay attention to "minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves" and the food that's probably average at Hilton Garden Inns?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:13
3
@Greek-Area51Proposal In-house food is big for business travelers who just want to eat with minimal fuss, and free breakfast is important for families and leisure travelers. You can see how they try to segment those markets. And you'd be surprised how frequent travelers notice small things; I personally really like the smell of the soap at my preferred brand.
– user71659
Nov 4 at 22:19
2
@Greek-Area51Proposal Guests may not pay that much attention (some certainly will to whether food is available), but hotel chains have two types of customers: guests and franchisees. Even if a guest doesn't care about something, the owner of a new property cares whether they have to buy microwaves and fridges, and they really care about how large the rooms have to be or whether they need to operate a full-time restaurant.
– Zach Lipton
Nov 4 at 22:20
Also keep in mind that business travelers are usually price insensitive to a certain point, since the company pays for all their expenses. Therefore this segment of travelers will often choose their favorite hotel brand, even if it's more expensive on a given day. These are the best kind or customers and having more brands ensures more opportunities for attracting loyal customers.
– JonathanReez♦
Nov 5 at 3:23
add a comment |
Thanks. I can spot the differences now. But do guests truly pay attention to "minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves" and the food that's probably average at Hilton Garden Inns?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:13
3
@Greek-Area51Proposal In-house food is big for business travelers who just want to eat with minimal fuss, and free breakfast is important for families and leisure travelers. You can see how they try to segment those markets. And you'd be surprised how frequent travelers notice small things; I personally really like the smell of the soap at my preferred brand.
– user71659
Nov 4 at 22:19
2
@Greek-Area51Proposal Guests may not pay that much attention (some certainly will to whether food is available), but hotel chains have two types of customers: guests and franchisees. Even if a guest doesn't care about something, the owner of a new property cares whether they have to buy microwaves and fridges, and they really care about how large the rooms have to be or whether they need to operate a full-time restaurant.
– Zach Lipton
Nov 4 at 22:20
Also keep in mind that business travelers are usually price insensitive to a certain point, since the company pays for all their expenses. Therefore this segment of travelers will often choose their favorite hotel brand, even if it's more expensive on a given day. These are the best kind or customers and having more brands ensures more opportunities for attracting loyal customers.
– JonathanReez♦
Nov 5 at 3:23
Thanks. I can spot the differences now. But do guests truly pay attention to "minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves" and the food that's probably average at Hilton Garden Inns?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:13
Thanks. I can spot the differences now. But do guests truly pay attention to "minor requirements about things like plastic cups, fridges, and microwaves" and the food that's probably average at Hilton Garden Inns?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:13
3
3
@Greek-Area51Proposal In-house food is big for business travelers who just want to eat with minimal fuss, and free breakfast is important for families and leisure travelers. You can see how they try to segment those markets. And you'd be surprised how frequent travelers notice small things; I personally really like the smell of the soap at my preferred brand.
– user71659
Nov 4 at 22:19
@Greek-Area51Proposal In-house food is big for business travelers who just want to eat with minimal fuss, and free breakfast is important for families and leisure travelers. You can see how they try to segment those markets. And you'd be surprised how frequent travelers notice small things; I personally really like the smell of the soap at my preferred brand.
– user71659
Nov 4 at 22:19
2
2
@Greek-Area51Proposal Guests may not pay that much attention (some certainly will to whether food is available), but hotel chains have two types of customers: guests and franchisees. Even if a guest doesn't care about something, the owner of a new property cares whether they have to buy microwaves and fridges, and they really care about how large the rooms have to be or whether they need to operate a full-time restaurant.
– Zach Lipton
Nov 4 at 22:20
@Greek-Area51Proposal Guests may not pay that much attention (some certainly will to whether food is available), but hotel chains have two types of customers: guests and franchisees. Even if a guest doesn't care about something, the owner of a new property cares whether they have to buy microwaves and fridges, and they really care about how large the rooms have to be or whether they need to operate a full-time restaurant.
– Zach Lipton
Nov 4 at 22:20
Also keep in mind that business travelers are usually price insensitive to a certain point, since the company pays for all their expenses. Therefore this segment of travelers will often choose their favorite hotel brand, even if it's more expensive on a given day. These are the best kind or customers and having more brands ensures more opportunities for attracting loyal customers.
– JonathanReez♦
Nov 5 at 3:23
Also keep in mind that business travelers are usually price insensitive to a certain point, since the company pays for all their expenses. Therefore this segment of travelers will often choose their favorite hotel brand, even if it's more expensive on a given day. These are the best kind or customers and having more brands ensures more opportunities for attracting loyal customers.
– JonathanReez♦
Nov 5 at 3:23
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
The Hotel market is, like many other markets, splintered into many different brand names, and consumer don't follow consolidations well.
In other words, a single brand name is not able to capture more than 3 or 5% of the market, no matter how great they are.
Therefore, offering multiple brand names allows the chain behind it to grasp a larger share of the overall market. Consolidating all Hilton brands in for example two brands would reduce their market share over the next years significantly; obviously not something Hilton is interested in.
Other well-known examples are detergents (basically the complete detergent market consist of two companies, but they need to offer several dozens of 'brands' to defend their market share); sweets; and so on.
In addition, each brand tries to cater to a slightly different market segment, as customers have different priorities.
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
The Hotel market is, like many other markets, splintered into many different brand names, and consumer don't follow consolidations well.
In other words, a single brand name is not able to capture more than 3 or 5% of the market, no matter how great they are.
Therefore, offering multiple brand names allows the chain behind it to grasp a larger share of the overall market. Consolidating all Hilton brands in for example two brands would reduce their market share over the next years significantly; obviously not something Hilton is interested in.
Other well-known examples are detergents (basically the complete detergent market consist of two companies, but they need to offer several dozens of 'brands' to defend their market share); sweets; and so on.
In addition, each brand tries to cater to a slightly different market segment, as customers have different priorities.
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
The Hotel market is, like many other markets, splintered into many different brand names, and consumer don't follow consolidations well.
In other words, a single brand name is not able to capture more than 3 or 5% of the market, no matter how great they are.
Therefore, offering multiple brand names allows the chain behind it to grasp a larger share of the overall market. Consolidating all Hilton brands in for example two brands would reduce their market share over the next years significantly; obviously not something Hilton is interested in.
Other well-known examples are detergents (basically the complete detergent market consist of two companies, but they need to offer several dozens of 'brands' to defend their market share); sweets; and so on.
In addition, each brand tries to cater to a slightly different market segment, as customers have different priorities.
The Hotel market is, like many other markets, splintered into many different brand names, and consumer don't follow consolidations well.
In other words, a single brand name is not able to capture more than 3 or 5% of the market, no matter how great they are.
Therefore, offering multiple brand names allows the chain behind it to grasp a larger share of the overall market. Consolidating all Hilton brands in for example two brands would reduce their market share over the next years significantly; obviously not something Hilton is interested in.
Other well-known examples are detergents (basically the complete detergent market consist of two companies, but they need to offer several dozens of 'brands' to defend their market share); sweets; and so on.
In addition, each brand tries to cater to a slightly different market segment, as customers have different priorities.
answered Nov 4 at 20:12
Aganju
17.8k53870
17.8k53870
add a comment |
add a comment |
In all these cases the Wikipedia pages appear to explain clearly the reasons behind each of these hotel chains and how they differ. Do you have a specific question not answered there?
– Michael Hampton
Nov 4 at 19:51
The pages you are linking to, all explain that the 'product labels' are placed on quite distinct service packages. Why do you describe these as 'same class'?
– Tor-Einar Jarnbjo
Nov 4 at 19:54
10
Why do Nestlé and Mars produce so many candy bars that are just slightly different combinations of chocolate, caramel, and nuts?
– choster
Nov 4 at 20:55
@MichaelHampton Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02
@Tor-EinarJarnbjo Sorry, but the differences aren't obvious to me.
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Nov 4 at 22:02