Maximum value of $x$ when equality is given
$begingroup$
$$ x + y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y} $$
Find maximum value of $x$. $x$ and $y$ are reals.
algebra-precalculus
$endgroup$
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
$$ x + y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y} $$
Find maximum value of $x$. $x$ and $y$ are reals.
algebra-precalculus
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:17
$begingroup$
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:18
3
$begingroup$
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:20
$begingroup$
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
$endgroup$
– Rebellos
Nov 17 '18 at 20:22
$begingroup$
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
$endgroup$
– Makina
Nov 17 '18 at 20:23
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
$$ x + y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y} $$
Find maximum value of $x$. $x$ and $y$ are reals.
algebra-precalculus
$endgroup$
$$ x + y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y} $$
Find maximum value of $x$. $x$ and $y$ are reals.
algebra-precalculus
algebra-precalculus
edited Nov 18 '18 at 8:00
iBug
1449
1449
asked Nov 17 '18 at 20:13
mavericmaveric
69212
69212
$begingroup$
"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:17
$begingroup$
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:18
3
$begingroup$
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:20
$begingroup$
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
$endgroup$
– Rebellos
Nov 17 '18 at 20:22
$begingroup$
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
$endgroup$
– Makina
Nov 17 '18 at 20:23
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:17
$begingroup$
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:18
3
$begingroup$
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:20
$begingroup$
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
$endgroup$
– Rebellos
Nov 17 '18 at 20:22
$begingroup$
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
$endgroup$
– Makina
Nov 17 '18 at 20:23
$begingroup$
"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:17
$begingroup$
"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:17
$begingroup$
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:18
$begingroup$
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:18
3
3
$begingroup$
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:20
$begingroup$
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:20
$begingroup$
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
$endgroup$
– Rebellos
Nov 17 '18 at 20:22
$begingroup$
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
$endgroup$
– Rebellos
Nov 17 '18 at 20:22
$begingroup$
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
$endgroup$
– Makina
Nov 17 '18 at 20:23
$begingroup$
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
$endgroup$
– Makina
Nov 17 '18 at 20:23
|
show 3 more comments
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Try this method of completing the square.
Let $a=sqrt x$ and $b=sqrt y$ so that $a^2+b^2=a+b$ and $4a^2-4a+1+4b^2-4b+1=2$ ie $(2a-1)^2+(2b-1)^2=2$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Obviously $x,yge0$. We can therefore write $x=r^2cos^2theta$ and $y=r^2sin^2theta$. Then the equation becomes $$r^2(cos^2theta+sin^2theta)=r(costheta+sintheta)$$
with $theta in [0,fracpi2]$ and $rgt 0$. Dividing by $r$ and multiplying by $costheta$ we get $$sqrt x=(costheta+sintheta)costheta=cos^2theta+sinthetacostheta$$
Now find the maximum of the expression on the right. Use formula for the sine and cosine for double angle.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you set $f(x)=x-sqrt{x}$ then you want to solve $f(x)=-f(y)$
The maximum $x$ is reached for the line in green intersecting both curves $f$ and $-f$ at the maximal possible altitude.
So we have to solve $f'(y)=0iff1-dfrac1{2sqrt{y}}=0iff y=frac 14$
The corresponding $x$ verifies $f(x)=-f(y)=dfrac 14$ and this is just a quadratic polynomial to solve to find the $x$ value.
The maximum is then $x=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}4approx 1.4571$
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
dont understant what you trying to convey?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:50
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Since $x+ y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y}$ is symmetric, WLOG, we can consider $xge yge 0$ or $y=ax, 0le ale 1$. Then:
$$x+ ax = sqrt{x} + sqrt{ax} Rightarrow color{red}{sqrt{x}}=frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a} to text{max s.t. $0le ale 1$}\
f'(a)=left(frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a}right)'=0 Rightarrow frac{frac1{2sqrt{a}}(1+a)-(1+sqrt{a})}{(1+a)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
a+2sqrt{a}-1=0 Rightarrow a=3-2sqrt{2}approx 0.17.$$
Note that the function $f(a)$ is continuous at $0le ale 1$ and $f(0)=f(1)=1$ and $f(3-2sqrt{2})=frac12(1+sqrt{2})approx 1.207$. Hence it must be the maximum point (see Desmos graph).
So, the maximum value of $x$ is:
$$color{red}x=left(frac{1+sqrt{3-2sqrt{2}}}{1+(3-2sqrt{2})}right)^2=frac14left(1+sqrt{2}right)^2approx 1.457.$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Nov 18 '18 at 6:25
2
$begingroup$
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
$endgroup$
– zwim
Nov 18 '18 at 6:32
1
$begingroup$
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Nov 18 '18 at 6:43
$begingroup$
+1. Nice method.
$endgroup$
– Taladris
Nov 19 '18 at 0:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Observe that
$$x+y=sqrt x+sqrt yiff sqrt xleft(sqrt x-1right)=sqrt yleft(1-sqrt yright)$$
Now, for any values $;x,y>1;$ , the left side above will be positive whereas the right side will be negative (can you see why?), thus we must restrict the possible natural values...Can you take it from here?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
can we say then 1?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $f(x)=x-sqrt x$. The question becomes trying to find two real values $x,y$ so that $f(x)=-f(y)$, then maximising one of these values without regard for what happens to the other. After a bit of thinking analysing derivatives, it becomes clear that we want to minimise $f(x)$ so that $f(y)$, and hence $y$, can be maximised. So just set $f'(x)=0$ to find the local minimum value to be $-1/4$, and hence the maximum value of $y$ satisfies $f(y)=1/4$. This is a simple quadratic equation, solve, and you're done!
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are some caveats (we need to assume the existence of a maximum for example) but Lagrange's multipliers method work well here to find the value of the maximum:
Let $f(x,y)=x$ and $g(x,y)=x-sqrt{x}+y-sqrt{y}$. We want to find the maximum value of $f$ under constraint $g(x,y)=0$.
We have $nabla f=langle 1,0 rangle$ and $nabla g = langle 1-frac{1}{2sqrt{x}},1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}} rangle$. At a maximum, we have $nabla g=lambda nabla f$ for some real number $lambda$. This implies that $1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}}=0$, that is $y=frac{1}{4}$.
Using the constraint, we have $x-sqrt{x}-frac{1}{4}=0$ which is equivalent to $a^2-a-frac{1}{4}$ and $sqrt{x}=ageqslant 0$. We obtain $a=frac{1+sqrt{2}}{2}$, so $x=frac{(1+sqrt{2})^2}{4}=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}{4}$.
(sloppy) proof of the existence of the global maximum value: The constraint $x+y=sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$ implies that $xgeqslant 0$ and $ygeqslant 0$. Moreover, if $x$ or $y$ is large enough (x>R or y>R for some $R$ that I am too lazy to determine explicitly :p), $x+y>sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$, so we can assume that $x,y in [0,R]$.
Now, the function $f(x,y)=x$ is continuous and the set $S=left{ (x,y)in [0,R]^2; middle|; g(x,y)=0; right}$ is compact (closed and bounded in ${mathbb R}^2$) so, by the Extreme Value Theorem, $f$ attains its global extreme values on $S$. The global minimum value is obviously obtained at $(0,0)$, while the other one is located by Lagrange's method.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3002761%2fmaximum-value-of-x-when-equality-is-given%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Try this method of completing the square.
Let $a=sqrt x$ and $b=sqrt y$ so that $a^2+b^2=a+b$ and $4a^2-4a+1+4b^2-4b+1=2$ ie $(2a-1)^2+(2b-1)^2=2$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Try this method of completing the square.
Let $a=sqrt x$ and $b=sqrt y$ so that $a^2+b^2=a+b$ and $4a^2-4a+1+4b^2-4b+1=2$ ie $(2a-1)^2+(2b-1)^2=2$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Try this method of completing the square.
Let $a=sqrt x$ and $b=sqrt y$ so that $a^2+b^2=a+b$ and $4a^2-4a+1+4b^2-4b+1=2$ ie $(2a-1)^2+(2b-1)^2=2$
$endgroup$
Try this method of completing the square.
Let $a=sqrt x$ and $b=sqrt y$ so that $a^2+b^2=a+b$ and $4a^2-4a+1+4b^2-4b+1=2$ ie $(2a-1)^2+(2b-1)^2=2$
answered Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
Mark BennetMark Bennet
81k981179
81k981179
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Obviously $x,yge0$. We can therefore write $x=r^2cos^2theta$ and $y=r^2sin^2theta$. Then the equation becomes $$r^2(cos^2theta+sin^2theta)=r(costheta+sintheta)$$
with $theta in [0,fracpi2]$ and $rgt 0$. Dividing by $r$ and multiplying by $costheta$ we get $$sqrt x=(costheta+sintheta)costheta=cos^2theta+sinthetacostheta$$
Now find the maximum of the expression on the right. Use formula for the sine and cosine for double angle.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Obviously $x,yge0$. We can therefore write $x=r^2cos^2theta$ and $y=r^2sin^2theta$. Then the equation becomes $$r^2(cos^2theta+sin^2theta)=r(costheta+sintheta)$$
with $theta in [0,fracpi2]$ and $rgt 0$. Dividing by $r$ and multiplying by $costheta$ we get $$sqrt x=(costheta+sintheta)costheta=cos^2theta+sinthetacostheta$$
Now find the maximum of the expression on the right. Use formula for the sine and cosine for double angle.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Obviously $x,yge0$. We can therefore write $x=r^2cos^2theta$ and $y=r^2sin^2theta$. Then the equation becomes $$r^2(cos^2theta+sin^2theta)=r(costheta+sintheta)$$
with $theta in [0,fracpi2]$ and $rgt 0$. Dividing by $r$ and multiplying by $costheta$ we get $$sqrt x=(costheta+sintheta)costheta=cos^2theta+sinthetacostheta$$
Now find the maximum of the expression on the right. Use formula for the sine and cosine for double angle.
$endgroup$
Obviously $x,yge0$. We can therefore write $x=r^2cos^2theta$ and $y=r^2sin^2theta$. Then the equation becomes $$r^2(cos^2theta+sin^2theta)=r(costheta+sintheta)$$
with $theta in [0,fracpi2]$ and $rgt 0$. Dividing by $r$ and multiplying by $costheta$ we get $$sqrt x=(costheta+sintheta)costheta=cos^2theta+sinthetacostheta$$
Now find the maximum of the expression on the right. Use formula for the sine and cosine for double angle.
answered Nov 17 '18 at 20:47
AndreiAndrei
11.9k21126
11.9k21126
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you set $f(x)=x-sqrt{x}$ then you want to solve $f(x)=-f(y)$
The maximum $x$ is reached for the line in green intersecting both curves $f$ and $-f$ at the maximal possible altitude.
So we have to solve $f'(y)=0iff1-dfrac1{2sqrt{y}}=0iff y=frac 14$
The corresponding $x$ verifies $f(x)=-f(y)=dfrac 14$ and this is just a quadratic polynomial to solve to find the $x$ value.
The maximum is then $x=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}4approx 1.4571$
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
dont understant what you trying to convey?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:50
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you set $f(x)=x-sqrt{x}$ then you want to solve $f(x)=-f(y)$
The maximum $x$ is reached for the line in green intersecting both curves $f$ and $-f$ at the maximal possible altitude.
So we have to solve $f'(y)=0iff1-dfrac1{2sqrt{y}}=0iff y=frac 14$
The corresponding $x$ verifies $f(x)=-f(y)=dfrac 14$ and this is just a quadratic polynomial to solve to find the $x$ value.
The maximum is then $x=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}4approx 1.4571$
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
dont understant what you trying to convey?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:50
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you set $f(x)=x-sqrt{x}$ then you want to solve $f(x)=-f(y)$
The maximum $x$ is reached for the line in green intersecting both curves $f$ and $-f$ at the maximal possible altitude.
So we have to solve $f'(y)=0iff1-dfrac1{2sqrt{y}}=0iff y=frac 14$
The corresponding $x$ verifies $f(x)=-f(y)=dfrac 14$ and this is just a quadratic polynomial to solve to find the $x$ value.
The maximum is then $x=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}4approx 1.4571$
$endgroup$
If you set $f(x)=x-sqrt{x}$ then you want to solve $f(x)=-f(y)$
The maximum $x$ is reached for the line in green intersecting both curves $f$ and $-f$ at the maximal possible altitude.
So we have to solve $f'(y)=0iff1-dfrac1{2sqrt{y}}=0iff y=frac 14$
The corresponding $x$ verifies $f(x)=-f(y)=dfrac 14$ and this is just a quadratic polynomial to solve to find the $x$ value.
The maximum is then $x=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}4approx 1.4571$
edited Nov 18 '18 at 6:21
answered Nov 17 '18 at 20:47
zwimzwim
12k730
12k730
1
$begingroup$
dont understant what you trying to convey?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:50
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
dont understant what you trying to convey?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:50
1
1
$begingroup$
dont understant what you trying to convey?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:50
$begingroup$
dont understant what you trying to convey?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:50
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Since $x+ y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y}$ is symmetric, WLOG, we can consider $xge yge 0$ or $y=ax, 0le ale 1$. Then:
$$x+ ax = sqrt{x} + sqrt{ax} Rightarrow color{red}{sqrt{x}}=frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a} to text{max s.t. $0le ale 1$}\
f'(a)=left(frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a}right)'=0 Rightarrow frac{frac1{2sqrt{a}}(1+a)-(1+sqrt{a})}{(1+a)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
a+2sqrt{a}-1=0 Rightarrow a=3-2sqrt{2}approx 0.17.$$
Note that the function $f(a)$ is continuous at $0le ale 1$ and $f(0)=f(1)=1$ and $f(3-2sqrt{2})=frac12(1+sqrt{2})approx 1.207$. Hence it must be the maximum point (see Desmos graph).
So, the maximum value of $x$ is:
$$color{red}x=left(frac{1+sqrt{3-2sqrt{2}}}{1+(3-2sqrt{2})}right)^2=frac14left(1+sqrt{2}right)^2approx 1.457.$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Nov 18 '18 at 6:25
2
$begingroup$
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
$endgroup$
– zwim
Nov 18 '18 at 6:32
1
$begingroup$
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Nov 18 '18 at 6:43
$begingroup$
+1. Nice method.
$endgroup$
– Taladris
Nov 19 '18 at 0:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Since $x+ y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y}$ is symmetric, WLOG, we can consider $xge yge 0$ or $y=ax, 0le ale 1$. Then:
$$x+ ax = sqrt{x} + sqrt{ax} Rightarrow color{red}{sqrt{x}}=frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a} to text{max s.t. $0le ale 1$}\
f'(a)=left(frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a}right)'=0 Rightarrow frac{frac1{2sqrt{a}}(1+a)-(1+sqrt{a})}{(1+a)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
a+2sqrt{a}-1=0 Rightarrow a=3-2sqrt{2}approx 0.17.$$
Note that the function $f(a)$ is continuous at $0le ale 1$ and $f(0)=f(1)=1$ and $f(3-2sqrt{2})=frac12(1+sqrt{2})approx 1.207$. Hence it must be the maximum point (see Desmos graph).
So, the maximum value of $x$ is:
$$color{red}x=left(frac{1+sqrt{3-2sqrt{2}}}{1+(3-2sqrt{2})}right)^2=frac14left(1+sqrt{2}right)^2approx 1.457.$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Nov 18 '18 at 6:25
2
$begingroup$
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
$endgroup$
– zwim
Nov 18 '18 at 6:32
1
$begingroup$
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Nov 18 '18 at 6:43
$begingroup$
+1. Nice method.
$endgroup$
– Taladris
Nov 19 '18 at 0:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Since $x+ y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y}$ is symmetric, WLOG, we can consider $xge yge 0$ or $y=ax, 0le ale 1$. Then:
$$x+ ax = sqrt{x} + sqrt{ax} Rightarrow color{red}{sqrt{x}}=frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a} to text{max s.t. $0le ale 1$}\
f'(a)=left(frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a}right)'=0 Rightarrow frac{frac1{2sqrt{a}}(1+a)-(1+sqrt{a})}{(1+a)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
a+2sqrt{a}-1=0 Rightarrow a=3-2sqrt{2}approx 0.17.$$
Note that the function $f(a)$ is continuous at $0le ale 1$ and $f(0)=f(1)=1$ and $f(3-2sqrt{2})=frac12(1+sqrt{2})approx 1.207$. Hence it must be the maximum point (see Desmos graph).
So, the maximum value of $x$ is:
$$color{red}x=left(frac{1+sqrt{3-2sqrt{2}}}{1+(3-2sqrt{2})}right)^2=frac14left(1+sqrt{2}right)^2approx 1.457.$$
$endgroup$
Since $x+ y = sqrt{x} + sqrt{y}$ is symmetric, WLOG, we can consider $xge yge 0$ or $y=ax, 0le ale 1$. Then:
$$x+ ax = sqrt{x} + sqrt{ax} Rightarrow color{red}{sqrt{x}}=frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a} to text{max s.t. $0le ale 1$}\
f'(a)=left(frac{1+sqrt{a}}{1+a}right)'=0 Rightarrow frac{frac1{2sqrt{a}}(1+a)-(1+sqrt{a})}{(1+a)^2}=0 Rightarrow \
a+2sqrt{a}-1=0 Rightarrow a=3-2sqrt{2}approx 0.17.$$
Note that the function $f(a)$ is continuous at $0le ale 1$ and $f(0)=f(1)=1$ and $f(3-2sqrt{2})=frac12(1+sqrt{2})approx 1.207$. Hence it must be the maximum point (see Desmos graph).
So, the maximum value of $x$ is:
$$color{red}x=left(frac{1+sqrt{3-2sqrt{2}}}{1+(3-2sqrt{2})}right)^2=frac14left(1+sqrt{2}right)^2approx 1.457.$$
edited Nov 18 '18 at 6:39
answered Nov 18 '18 at 5:32
farruhotafarruhota
20.2k2738
20.2k2738
$begingroup$
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Nov 18 '18 at 6:25
2
$begingroup$
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
$endgroup$
– zwim
Nov 18 '18 at 6:32
1
$begingroup$
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Nov 18 '18 at 6:43
$begingroup$
+1. Nice method.
$endgroup$
– Taladris
Nov 19 '18 at 0:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Nov 18 '18 at 6:25
2
$begingroup$
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
$endgroup$
– zwim
Nov 18 '18 at 6:32
1
$begingroup$
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Nov 18 '18 at 6:43
$begingroup$
+1. Nice method.
$endgroup$
– Taladris
Nov 19 '18 at 0:45
$begingroup$
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Nov 18 '18 at 6:25
$begingroup$
I don't think that's right. See zwim's answer, or just graph the curve in question to see that the right value should be around $1.46$.
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Nov 18 '18 at 6:25
2
2
$begingroup$
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
$endgroup$
– zwim
Nov 18 '18 at 6:32
$begingroup$
$1.207^2approx 1.457$ which is the right answer, so the method is fine. There is an error in the last calculation of $x$.
$endgroup$
– zwim
Nov 18 '18 at 6:32
1
1
$begingroup$
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Nov 18 '18 at 6:43
$begingroup$
@zwim, thank you for pointing to the error. Fixed it.
$endgroup$
– farruhota
Nov 18 '18 at 6:43
$begingroup$
+1. Nice method.
$endgroup$
– Taladris
Nov 19 '18 at 0:45
$begingroup$
+1. Nice method.
$endgroup$
– Taladris
Nov 19 '18 at 0:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Observe that
$$x+y=sqrt x+sqrt yiff sqrt xleft(sqrt x-1right)=sqrt yleft(1-sqrt yright)$$
Now, for any values $;x,y>1;$ , the left side above will be positive whereas the right side will be negative (can you see why?), thus we must restrict the possible natural values...Can you take it from here?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
can we say then 1?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Observe that
$$x+y=sqrt x+sqrt yiff sqrt xleft(sqrt x-1right)=sqrt yleft(1-sqrt yright)$$
Now, for any values $;x,y>1;$ , the left side above will be positive whereas the right side will be negative (can you see why?), thus we must restrict the possible natural values...Can you take it from here?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
can we say then 1?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Observe that
$$x+y=sqrt x+sqrt yiff sqrt xleft(sqrt x-1right)=sqrt yleft(1-sqrt yright)$$
Now, for any values $;x,y>1;$ , the left side above will be positive whereas the right side will be negative (can you see why?), thus we must restrict the possible natural values...Can you take it from here?
$endgroup$
Observe that
$$x+y=sqrt x+sqrt yiff sqrt xleft(sqrt x-1right)=sqrt yleft(1-sqrt yright)$$
Now, for any values $;x,y>1;$ , the left side above will be positive whereas the right side will be negative (can you see why?), thus we must restrict the possible natural values...Can you take it from here?
answered Nov 17 '18 at 20:24
DonAntonioDonAntonio
178k1493229
178k1493229
$begingroup$
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
can we say then 1?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
can we say then 1?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:39
$begingroup$
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
sorry the question is edited. it was real.
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
can we say then 1?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
can we say then 1?
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:25
$begingroup$
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:39
$begingroup$
The above solves completely the first, original question. Now that it has changed to "real" it at least can help you to realize that $;y;$ cannot be greater than $;1;$ and $;x;$ smaller than one, for example...
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $f(x)=x-sqrt x$. The question becomes trying to find two real values $x,y$ so that $f(x)=-f(y)$, then maximising one of these values without regard for what happens to the other. After a bit of thinking analysing derivatives, it becomes clear that we want to minimise $f(x)$ so that $f(y)$, and hence $y$, can be maximised. So just set $f'(x)=0$ to find the local minimum value to be $-1/4$, and hence the maximum value of $y$ satisfies $f(y)=1/4$. This is a simple quadratic equation, solve, and you're done!
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $f(x)=x-sqrt x$. The question becomes trying to find two real values $x,y$ so that $f(x)=-f(y)$, then maximising one of these values without regard for what happens to the other. After a bit of thinking analysing derivatives, it becomes clear that we want to minimise $f(x)$ so that $f(y)$, and hence $y$, can be maximised. So just set $f'(x)=0$ to find the local minimum value to be $-1/4$, and hence the maximum value of $y$ satisfies $f(y)=1/4$. This is a simple quadratic equation, solve, and you're done!
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $f(x)=x-sqrt x$. The question becomes trying to find two real values $x,y$ so that $f(x)=-f(y)$, then maximising one of these values without regard for what happens to the other. After a bit of thinking analysing derivatives, it becomes clear that we want to minimise $f(x)$ so that $f(y)$, and hence $y$, can be maximised. So just set $f'(x)=0$ to find the local minimum value to be $-1/4$, and hence the maximum value of $y$ satisfies $f(y)=1/4$. This is a simple quadratic equation, solve, and you're done!
$endgroup$
Let $f(x)=x-sqrt x$. The question becomes trying to find two real values $x,y$ so that $f(x)=-f(y)$, then maximising one of these values without regard for what happens to the other. After a bit of thinking analysing derivatives, it becomes clear that we want to minimise $f(x)$ so that $f(y)$, and hence $y$, can be maximised. So just set $f'(x)=0$ to find the local minimum value to be $-1/4$, and hence the maximum value of $y$ satisfies $f(y)=1/4$. This is a simple quadratic equation, solve, and you're done!
answered Nov 18 '18 at 6:22
YiFanYiFan
3,2501424
3,2501424
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are some caveats (we need to assume the existence of a maximum for example) but Lagrange's multipliers method work well here to find the value of the maximum:
Let $f(x,y)=x$ and $g(x,y)=x-sqrt{x}+y-sqrt{y}$. We want to find the maximum value of $f$ under constraint $g(x,y)=0$.
We have $nabla f=langle 1,0 rangle$ and $nabla g = langle 1-frac{1}{2sqrt{x}},1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}} rangle$. At a maximum, we have $nabla g=lambda nabla f$ for some real number $lambda$. This implies that $1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}}=0$, that is $y=frac{1}{4}$.
Using the constraint, we have $x-sqrt{x}-frac{1}{4}=0$ which is equivalent to $a^2-a-frac{1}{4}$ and $sqrt{x}=ageqslant 0$. We obtain $a=frac{1+sqrt{2}}{2}$, so $x=frac{(1+sqrt{2})^2}{4}=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}{4}$.
(sloppy) proof of the existence of the global maximum value: The constraint $x+y=sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$ implies that $xgeqslant 0$ and $ygeqslant 0$. Moreover, if $x$ or $y$ is large enough (x>R or y>R for some $R$ that I am too lazy to determine explicitly :p), $x+y>sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$, so we can assume that $x,y in [0,R]$.
Now, the function $f(x,y)=x$ is continuous and the set $S=left{ (x,y)in [0,R]^2; middle|; g(x,y)=0; right}$ is compact (closed and bounded in ${mathbb R}^2$) so, by the Extreme Value Theorem, $f$ attains its global extreme values on $S$. The global minimum value is obviously obtained at $(0,0)$, while the other one is located by Lagrange's method.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are some caveats (we need to assume the existence of a maximum for example) but Lagrange's multipliers method work well here to find the value of the maximum:
Let $f(x,y)=x$ and $g(x,y)=x-sqrt{x}+y-sqrt{y}$. We want to find the maximum value of $f$ under constraint $g(x,y)=0$.
We have $nabla f=langle 1,0 rangle$ and $nabla g = langle 1-frac{1}{2sqrt{x}},1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}} rangle$. At a maximum, we have $nabla g=lambda nabla f$ for some real number $lambda$. This implies that $1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}}=0$, that is $y=frac{1}{4}$.
Using the constraint, we have $x-sqrt{x}-frac{1}{4}=0$ which is equivalent to $a^2-a-frac{1}{4}$ and $sqrt{x}=ageqslant 0$. We obtain $a=frac{1+sqrt{2}}{2}$, so $x=frac{(1+sqrt{2})^2}{4}=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}{4}$.
(sloppy) proof of the existence of the global maximum value: The constraint $x+y=sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$ implies that $xgeqslant 0$ and $ygeqslant 0$. Moreover, if $x$ or $y$ is large enough (x>R or y>R for some $R$ that I am too lazy to determine explicitly :p), $x+y>sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$, so we can assume that $x,y in [0,R]$.
Now, the function $f(x,y)=x$ is continuous and the set $S=left{ (x,y)in [0,R]^2; middle|; g(x,y)=0; right}$ is compact (closed and bounded in ${mathbb R}^2$) so, by the Extreme Value Theorem, $f$ attains its global extreme values on $S$. The global minimum value is obviously obtained at $(0,0)$, while the other one is located by Lagrange's method.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are some caveats (we need to assume the existence of a maximum for example) but Lagrange's multipliers method work well here to find the value of the maximum:
Let $f(x,y)=x$ and $g(x,y)=x-sqrt{x}+y-sqrt{y}$. We want to find the maximum value of $f$ under constraint $g(x,y)=0$.
We have $nabla f=langle 1,0 rangle$ and $nabla g = langle 1-frac{1}{2sqrt{x}},1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}} rangle$. At a maximum, we have $nabla g=lambda nabla f$ for some real number $lambda$. This implies that $1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}}=0$, that is $y=frac{1}{4}$.
Using the constraint, we have $x-sqrt{x}-frac{1}{4}=0$ which is equivalent to $a^2-a-frac{1}{4}$ and $sqrt{x}=ageqslant 0$. We obtain $a=frac{1+sqrt{2}}{2}$, so $x=frac{(1+sqrt{2})^2}{4}=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}{4}$.
(sloppy) proof of the existence of the global maximum value: The constraint $x+y=sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$ implies that $xgeqslant 0$ and $ygeqslant 0$. Moreover, if $x$ or $y$ is large enough (x>R or y>R for some $R$ that I am too lazy to determine explicitly :p), $x+y>sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$, so we can assume that $x,y in [0,R]$.
Now, the function $f(x,y)=x$ is continuous and the set $S=left{ (x,y)in [0,R]^2; middle|; g(x,y)=0; right}$ is compact (closed and bounded in ${mathbb R}^2$) so, by the Extreme Value Theorem, $f$ attains its global extreme values on $S$. The global minimum value is obviously obtained at $(0,0)$, while the other one is located by Lagrange's method.
$endgroup$
There are some caveats (we need to assume the existence of a maximum for example) but Lagrange's multipliers method work well here to find the value of the maximum:
Let $f(x,y)=x$ and $g(x,y)=x-sqrt{x}+y-sqrt{y}$. We want to find the maximum value of $f$ under constraint $g(x,y)=0$.
We have $nabla f=langle 1,0 rangle$ and $nabla g = langle 1-frac{1}{2sqrt{x}},1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}} rangle$. At a maximum, we have $nabla g=lambda nabla f$ for some real number $lambda$. This implies that $1-frac{1}{2sqrt{y}}=0$, that is $y=frac{1}{4}$.
Using the constraint, we have $x-sqrt{x}-frac{1}{4}=0$ which is equivalent to $a^2-a-frac{1}{4}$ and $sqrt{x}=ageqslant 0$. We obtain $a=frac{1+sqrt{2}}{2}$, so $x=frac{(1+sqrt{2})^2}{4}=frac{3+2sqrt{2}}{4}$.
(sloppy) proof of the existence of the global maximum value: The constraint $x+y=sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$ implies that $xgeqslant 0$ and $ygeqslant 0$. Moreover, if $x$ or $y$ is large enough (x>R or y>R for some $R$ that I am too lazy to determine explicitly :p), $x+y>sqrt{x}+sqrt{y}$, so we can assume that $x,y in [0,R]$.
Now, the function $f(x,y)=x$ is continuous and the set $S=left{ (x,y)in [0,R]^2; middle|; g(x,y)=0; right}$ is compact (closed and bounded in ${mathbb R}^2$) so, by the Extreme Value Theorem, $f$ attains its global extreme values on $S$. The global minimum value is obviously obtained at $(0,0)$, while the other one is located by Lagrange's method.
answered Nov 19 '18 at 2:06
TaladrisTaladris
4,69631933
4,69631933
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3002761%2fmaximum-value-of-x-when-equality-is-given%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
"Find maximum value...of $x$"? What does this mean?
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:17
$begingroup$
it means most probably to find max value of x satisfying the equation
$endgroup$
– maveric
Nov 17 '18 at 20:18
3
$begingroup$
Ok, I think I understand now. When $;x,yinBbb N;$ (since they obviously must be non-negative), what is the maximum value for some $;x;$ fulfilling that no matter what $;y;$ we take...A little odd question.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Nov 17 '18 at 20:20
$begingroup$
The question makes no much sense, as @DonAntonio suggests.
$endgroup$
– Rebellos
Nov 17 '18 at 20:22
$begingroup$
Solve as quadric with respect to $sqrt{x}$ and then maximize the root value + the condition on integers. Would that not work?
$endgroup$
– Makina
Nov 17 '18 at 20:23