Is Non-Passive Cooling bad for Lithium Ion Cells?
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
I'm in the process of designing a device capable of charging, discharging and testing internal resistance of 18650 cells. My device will be capable of testing 100x 18650 at the same time, each will have their dedicated module which allows them to run independent from one another.
The pre-designed modules are capable of charging and discharging at 1A however they also have a feature which throttles and reduces the wattage when the battery becomes too hot. This feature is important as this will help answer my question at the end.
In the charging phase of the test they are only charged at around 250ma as this helps to find cells with internal problems and cause the cell to run hot, so no throttling will occur.
During the discharge phase however I need to test the cells at 1A discharge but often the modules will throttle because the battery is getting warm/hot.
I've read comments, forums and even articles saying you should not cool lithium batteries since they cook inside or they change the chemistry within the battery, but I'm unable to find any reputable information that could be considered fact, I know that many electric cars have air ducts to help cool the battery but this doesn't mean its good for the batteries? I'm really unsure and confused.
Is there any scientific reason why you should NOT blow air across batteries while in use or during a charge cycle?
battery-charging lithium-ion discharge cooling battery-chemistry
asked Nov 7 at 18:36
Simon Hayter
182210
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
I'm in the process of designing a device capable of charging, discharging and testing internal resistance of 18650 cells. My device will be capable of testing 100x 18650 at the same time, each will have their dedicated module which allows them to run independent from one another.
The pre-designed modules are capable of charging and discharging at 1A however they also have a feature which throttles and reduces the wattage when the battery becomes too hot. This feature is important as this will help answer my question at the end.
In the charging phase of the test they are only charged at around 250ma as this helps to find cells with internal problems and cause the cell to run hot, so no throttling will occur.
During the discharge phase however I need to test the cells at 1A discharge but often the modules will throttle because the battery is getting warm/hot.
I've read comments, forums and even articles saying you should not cool lithium batteries since they cook inside or they change the chemistry within the battery, but I'm unable to find any reputable information that could be considered fact, I know that many electric cars have air ducts to help cool the battery but this doesn't mean its good for the batteries? I'm really unsure and confused.
Is there any scientific reason why you should NOT blow air across batteries while in use or during a charge cycle?
battery-charging lithium-ion discharge cooling battery-chemistry
asked Nov 7 at 18:36
Simon Hayter
182210
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
I'm in the process of designing a device capable of charging, discharging and testing internal resistance of 18650 cells. My device will be capable of testing 100x 18650 at the same time, each will have their dedicated module which allows them to run independent from one another.
The pre-designed modules are capable of charging and discharging at 1A however they also have a feature which throttles and reduces the wattage when the battery becomes too hot. This feature is important as this will help answer my question at the end.
In the charging phase of the test they are only charged at around 250ma as this helps to find cells with internal problems and cause the cell to run hot, so no throttling will occur.
During the discharge phase however I need to test the cells at 1A discharge but often the modules will throttle because the battery is getting warm/hot.
I've read comments, forums and even articles saying you should not cool lithium batteries since they cook inside or they change the chemistry within the battery, but I'm unable to find any reputable information that could be considered fact, I know that many electric cars have air ducts to help cool the battery but this doesn't mean its good for the batteries? I'm really unsure and confused.
Is there any scientific reason why you should NOT blow air across batteries while in use or during a charge cycle?
battery-charging lithium-ion discharge cooling battery-chemistry
asked Nov 7 at 18:36
Simon Hayter
182210
I'm in the process of designing a device capable of charging, discharging and testing internal resistance of 18650 cells. My device will be capable of testing 100x 18650 at the same time, each will have their dedicated module which allows them to run independent from one another.
The pre-designed modules are capable of charging and discharging at 1A however they also have a feature which throttles and reduces the wattage when the battery becomes too hot. This feature is important as this will help answer my question at the end.
In the charging phase of the test they are only charged at around 250ma as this helps to find cells with internal problems and cause the cell to run hot, so no throttling will occur.
During the discharge phase however I need to test the cells at 1A discharge but often the modules will throttle because the battery is getting warm/hot.
I've read comments, forums and even articles saying you should not cool lithium batteries since they cook inside or they change the chemistry within the battery, but I'm unable to find any reputable information that could be considered fact, I know that many electric cars have air ducts to help cool the battery but this doesn't mean its good for the batteries? I'm really unsure and confused.
Is there any scientific reason why you should NOT blow air across batteries while in use or during a charge cycle?
battery-charging lithium-ion discharge cooling battery-chemistry
battery-charging lithium-ion discharge cooling battery-chemistry
asked Nov 7 at 18:36
Simon Hayter
182210
asked Nov 7 at 18:36
Simon Hayter
182210
asked Nov 7 at 18:36
Simon Hayter
182210
asked Nov 7 at 18:36
Simon Hayter
182210
asked Nov 7 at 18:36
Simon Hayter
182210
182210
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
Your concern is somewhat misplaced. At 1 A charge-discharge, normal 18650 Li-Ion batteries do not heat up. Consider that normal battery heats up only due to Joule dissipation over ESR, and the ESR of most 18650 cell is under 100-150 mOhms. So the maximum internal dissipation is under 200 mW, which, for the physical size (and surface area) of 18650 cell is nearly nothing.
However, since you plan to discharge them, you will have full 4 W dissipation in each of your loads, so a fan blower will be a must.
Car batteries gets discharged (and charged during recuperative braking) at much-much higher rates, and only then the internal dissipation/heat generation becomes an issue.
answered Nov 7 at 18:56
Ale..chenski
25.7k11860
Most of the batteries I have are Samsung 25R's which are notorious for being a high drain and fast charge battery, they ain't hot but they certainly are warm after 2 hours of draining, maybe the problem is the modules are running hot rather than the batteries, but is it okay to blow air on one side of a lithium?
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:14
@SimonHayter, are you sure that the heat is coming from batteries, and not spreading up from your drain load? In any case you will need a blower during discharge stage, and it will do no harm if it will continue to blow during charge stage.
– Ale..chenski
Nov 7 at 19:19
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Tesla 18650 batteries are cooled by propylene glycol coolant in a heat exchanger system.
See, for example, US20140178722A1 and US 8,758,924
Some more information on Tesla's particular implementation here.
answered Nov 7 at 18:50
Spehro Pefhany
200k4146399
Yea the heat is evenly spread, my idea was to have a fan blowing on them but my concern was people saying fans are bad for Lithium because they alter the chemistry as heat is not even spread causing hot spots.
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:16
If it's not a problem with Tesla's design I can't imagine a fan is going to cause issues.
– Spehro Pefhany
Nov 7 at 19:19
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
Your concern is somewhat misplaced. At 1 A charge-discharge, normal 18650 Li-Ion batteries do not heat up. Consider that normal battery heats up only due to Joule dissipation over ESR, and the ESR of most 18650 cell is under 100-150 mOhms. So the maximum internal dissipation is under 200 mW, which, for the physical size (and surface area) of 18650 cell is nearly nothing.
However, since you plan to discharge them, you will have full 4 W dissipation in each of your loads, so a fan blower will be a must.
Car batteries gets discharged (and charged during recuperative braking) at much-much higher rates, and only then the internal dissipation/heat generation becomes an issue.
answered Nov 7 at 18:56
Ale..chenski
25.7k11860
Most of the batteries I have are Samsung 25R's which are notorious for being a high drain and fast charge battery, they ain't hot but they certainly are warm after 2 hours of draining, maybe the problem is the modules are running hot rather than the batteries, but is it okay to blow air on one side of a lithium?
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:14
@SimonHayter, are you sure that the heat is coming from batteries, and not spreading up from your drain load? In any case you will need a blower during discharge stage, and it will do no harm if it will continue to blow during charge stage.
– Ale..chenski
Nov 7 at 19:19
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
Your concern is somewhat misplaced. At 1 A charge-discharge, normal 18650 Li-Ion batteries do not heat up. Consider that normal battery heats up only due to Joule dissipation over ESR, and the ESR of most 18650 cell is under 100-150 mOhms. So the maximum internal dissipation is under 200 mW, which, for the physical size (and surface area) of 18650 cell is nearly nothing.
However, since you plan to discharge them, you will have full 4 W dissipation in each of your loads, so a fan blower will be a must.
Car batteries gets discharged (and charged during recuperative braking) at much-much higher rates, and only then the internal dissipation/heat generation becomes an issue.
answered Nov 7 at 18:56
Ale..chenski
25.7k11860
Most of the batteries I have are Samsung 25R's which are notorious for being a high drain and fast charge battery, they ain't hot but they certainly are warm after 2 hours of draining, maybe the problem is the modules are running hot rather than the batteries, but is it okay to blow air on one side of a lithium?
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:14
@SimonHayter, are you sure that the heat is coming from batteries, and not spreading up from your drain load? In any case you will need a blower during discharge stage, and it will do no harm if it will continue to blow during charge stage.
– Ale..chenski
Nov 7 at 19:19
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
Your concern is somewhat misplaced. At 1 A charge-discharge, normal 18650 Li-Ion batteries do not heat up. Consider that normal battery heats up only due to Joule dissipation over ESR, and the ESR of most 18650 cell is under 100-150 mOhms. So the maximum internal dissipation is under 200 mW, which, for the physical size (and surface area) of 18650 cell is nearly nothing.
However, since you plan to discharge them, you will have full 4 W dissipation in each of your loads, so a fan blower will be a must.
Car batteries gets discharged (and charged during recuperative braking) at much-much higher rates, and only then the internal dissipation/heat generation becomes an issue.
answered Nov 7 at 18:56
Ale..chenski
25.7k11860
Your concern is somewhat misplaced. At 1 A charge-discharge, normal 18650 Li-Ion batteries do not heat up. Consider that normal battery heats up only due to Joule dissipation over ESR, and the ESR of most 18650 cell is under 100-150 mOhms. So the maximum internal dissipation is under 200 mW, which, for the physical size (and surface area) of 18650 cell is nearly nothing.
However, since you plan to discharge them, you will have full 4 W dissipation in each of your loads, so a fan blower will be a must.
Car batteries gets discharged (and charged during recuperative braking) at much-much higher rates, and only then the internal dissipation/heat generation becomes an issue.
answered Nov 7 at 18:56
Ale..chenski
25.7k11860
edited Nov 7 at 19:08
answered Nov 7 at 18:56
Ale..chenski
25.7k11860
answered Nov 7 at 18:56
Ale..chenski
25.7k11860
answered Nov 7 at 18:56
Ale..chenski
25.7k11860
25.7k11860
Most of the batteries I have are Samsung 25R's which are notorious for being a high drain and fast charge battery, they ain't hot but they certainly are warm after 2 hours of draining, maybe the problem is the modules are running hot rather than the batteries, but is it okay to blow air on one side of a lithium?
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:14
@SimonHayter, are you sure that the heat is coming from batteries, and not spreading up from your drain load? In any case you will need a blower during discharge stage, and it will do no harm if it will continue to blow during charge stage.
– Ale..chenski
Nov 7 at 19:19
add a comment |
Most of the batteries I have are Samsung 25R's which are notorious for being a high drain and fast charge battery, they ain't hot but they certainly are warm after 2 hours of draining, maybe the problem is the modules are running hot rather than the batteries, but is it okay to blow air on one side of a lithium?
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:14
@SimonHayter, are you sure that the heat is coming from batteries, and not spreading up from your drain load? In any case you will need a blower during discharge stage, and it will do no harm if it will continue to blow during charge stage.
– Ale..chenski
Nov 7 at 19:19
Most of the batteries I have are Samsung 25R's which are notorious for being a high drain and fast charge battery, they ain't hot but they certainly are warm after 2 hours of draining, maybe the problem is the modules are running hot rather than the batteries, but is it okay to blow air on one side of a lithium?
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:14
Most of the batteries I have are Samsung 25R's which are notorious for being a high drain and fast charge battery, they ain't hot but they certainly are warm after 2 hours of draining, maybe the problem is the modules are running hot rather than the batteries, but is it okay to blow air on one side of a lithium?
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:14
@SimonHayter, are you sure that the heat is coming from batteries, and not spreading up from your drain load? In any case you will need a blower during discharge stage, and it will do no harm if it will continue to blow during charge stage.
– Ale..chenski
Nov 7 at 19:19
@SimonHayter, are you sure that the heat is coming from batteries, and not spreading up from your drain load? In any case you will need a blower during discharge stage, and it will do no harm if it will continue to blow during charge stage.
– Ale..chenski
Nov 7 at 19:19
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Tesla 18650 batteries are cooled by propylene glycol coolant in a heat exchanger system.
See, for example, US20140178722A1 and US 8,758,924
Some more information on Tesla's particular implementation here.
answered Nov 7 at 18:50
Spehro Pefhany
200k4146399
Yea the heat is evenly spread, my idea was to have a fan blowing on them but my concern was people saying fans are bad for Lithium because they alter the chemistry as heat is not even spread causing hot spots.
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:16
If it's not a problem with Tesla's design I can't imagine a fan is going to cause issues.
– Spehro Pefhany
Nov 7 at 19:19
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Tesla 18650 batteries are cooled by propylene glycol coolant in a heat exchanger system.
See, for example, US20140178722A1 and US 8,758,924
Some more information on Tesla's particular implementation here.
answered Nov 7 at 18:50
Spehro Pefhany
200k4146399
Yea the heat is evenly spread, my idea was to have a fan blowing on them but my concern was people saying fans are bad for Lithium because they alter the chemistry as heat is not even spread causing hot spots.
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:16
If it's not a problem with Tesla's design I can't imagine a fan is going to cause issues.
– Spehro Pefhany
Nov 7 at 19:19
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Tesla 18650 batteries are cooled by propylene glycol coolant in a heat exchanger system.
See, for example, US20140178722A1 and US 8,758,924
Some more information on Tesla's particular implementation here.
answered Nov 7 at 18:50
Spehro Pefhany
200k4146399
Tesla 18650 batteries are cooled by propylene glycol coolant in a heat exchanger system.
See, for example, US20140178722A1 and US 8,758,924
Some more information on Tesla's particular implementation here.
answered Nov 7 at 18:50
Spehro Pefhany
200k4146399
answered Nov 7 at 18:50
Spehro Pefhany
200k4146399
answered Nov 7 at 18:50
Spehro Pefhany
200k4146399
answered Nov 7 at 18:50
Spehro Pefhany
200k4146399
200k4146399
Yea the heat is evenly spread, my idea was to have a fan blowing on them but my concern was people saying fans are bad for Lithium because they alter the chemistry as heat is not even spread causing hot spots.
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:16
If it's not a problem with Tesla's design I can't imagine a fan is going to cause issues.
– Spehro Pefhany
Nov 7 at 19:19
add a comment |
Yea the heat is evenly spread, my idea was to have a fan blowing on them but my concern was people saying fans are bad for Lithium because they alter the chemistry as heat is not even spread causing hot spots.
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:16
If it's not a problem with Tesla's design I can't imagine a fan is going to cause issues.
– Spehro Pefhany
Nov 7 at 19:19
Yea the heat is evenly spread, my idea was to have a fan blowing on them but my concern was people saying fans are bad for Lithium because they alter the chemistry as heat is not even spread causing hot spots.
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:16
Yea the heat is evenly spread, my idea was to have a fan blowing on them but my concern was people saying fans are bad for Lithium because they alter the chemistry as heat is not even spread causing hot spots.
– Simon Hayter
Nov 7 at 19:16
If it's not a problem with Tesla's design I can't imagine a fan is going to cause issues.
– Spehro Pefhany
Nov 7 at 19:19
If it's not a problem with Tesla's design I can't imagine a fan is going to cause issues.
– Spehro Pefhany
Nov 7 at 19:19
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f405579%2fis-non-passive-cooling-bad-for-lithium-ion-cells%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
