What happens when you non-lethally attack with a vorpal weapon but roll a 20 on the die?











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This silly scenario just popped in my head, and I wanted to verify what would happen:



Let's say Bob the Redemption Paladin doesn't like to kill his foes (so he attacks non-lethally), but for some odd reason, he's attacking a beheadable foe with an attuned Vorpal weapon. He non-lethally attacks the foe, but rolls a 20 on the attack roll. What happens now?




  1. The Vorpal weapon's desire to chop heads off takes priority, and the poor bloke loses their head


  2. The Paladin's will to spare his foe takes priority, and the foe still has a head after the strike


  3. Another outcome











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  • 6




    @Dinopolis: This is an interesting point, however it is clearly an attempt to comment on a solution to the question. Thus, it belongs in an answer. We do not allow answering in the comments and comments attempting to do so are deleted. So please save the content in this comment if you think it is worthy by expanding on it in the answer section below. See this meta for our policy and the reasons behind it.
    – Rubiksmoose
    Nov 5 at 17:18






  • 1




    I think this requires the tag rules-as-written. My first instinct is to say that beyond what rules say, it's up to the DM.
    – Masclins
    Nov 5 at 18:23








  • 3




    @Masclins You might want to read the following meta on the use of that tag: Does using the Rules as Written tag restrict answers to only using RAW?
    – Bloodcinder
    Nov 5 at 18:49






  • 15




    The target's head gets cut off in a non-lethal manner. After all, the Headless Horseman had to have gotten his start somewhere.
    – Mark
    Nov 6 at 0:01






  • 1




    This seems like a pretty poor primary weapon choice for such a paladin.
    – RBarryYoung
    Nov 7 at 0:49















up vote
33
down vote

favorite
2












This silly scenario just popped in my head, and I wanted to verify what would happen:



Let's say Bob the Redemption Paladin doesn't like to kill his foes (so he attacks non-lethally), but for some odd reason, he's attacking a beheadable foe with an attuned Vorpal weapon. He non-lethally attacks the foe, but rolls a 20 on the attack roll. What happens now?




  1. The Vorpal weapon's desire to chop heads off takes priority, and the poor bloke loses their head


  2. The Paladin's will to spare his foe takes priority, and the foe still has a head after the strike


  3. Another outcome











share|improve this question




















  • 6




    @Dinopolis: This is an interesting point, however it is clearly an attempt to comment on a solution to the question. Thus, it belongs in an answer. We do not allow answering in the comments and comments attempting to do so are deleted. So please save the content in this comment if you think it is worthy by expanding on it in the answer section below. See this meta for our policy and the reasons behind it.
    – Rubiksmoose
    Nov 5 at 17:18






  • 1




    I think this requires the tag rules-as-written. My first instinct is to say that beyond what rules say, it's up to the DM.
    – Masclins
    Nov 5 at 18:23








  • 3




    @Masclins You might want to read the following meta on the use of that tag: Does using the Rules as Written tag restrict answers to only using RAW?
    – Bloodcinder
    Nov 5 at 18:49






  • 15




    The target's head gets cut off in a non-lethal manner. After all, the Headless Horseman had to have gotten his start somewhere.
    – Mark
    Nov 6 at 0:01






  • 1




    This seems like a pretty poor primary weapon choice for such a paladin.
    – RBarryYoung
    Nov 7 at 0:49













up vote
33
down vote

favorite
2









up vote
33
down vote

favorite
2






2





This silly scenario just popped in my head, and I wanted to verify what would happen:



Let's say Bob the Redemption Paladin doesn't like to kill his foes (so he attacks non-lethally), but for some odd reason, he's attacking a beheadable foe with an attuned Vorpal weapon. He non-lethally attacks the foe, but rolls a 20 on the attack roll. What happens now?




  1. The Vorpal weapon's desire to chop heads off takes priority, and the poor bloke loses their head


  2. The Paladin's will to spare his foe takes priority, and the foe still has a head after the strike


  3. Another outcome











share|improve this question















This silly scenario just popped in my head, and I wanted to verify what would happen:



Let's say Bob the Redemption Paladin doesn't like to kill his foes (so he attacks non-lethally), but for some odd reason, he's attacking a beheadable foe with an attuned Vorpal weapon. He non-lethally attacks the foe, but rolls a 20 on the attack roll. What happens now?




  1. The Vorpal weapon's desire to chop heads off takes priority, and the poor bloke loses their head


  2. The Paladin's will to spare his foe takes priority, and the foe still has a head after the strike


  3. Another outcome








dnd-5e magic-items






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edited Nov 5 at 18:18









SevenSidedDie

202k26641921




202k26641921










asked Nov 5 at 14:48









Gael L

7,872229141




7,872229141








  • 6




    @Dinopolis: This is an interesting point, however it is clearly an attempt to comment on a solution to the question. Thus, it belongs in an answer. We do not allow answering in the comments and comments attempting to do so are deleted. So please save the content in this comment if you think it is worthy by expanding on it in the answer section below. See this meta for our policy and the reasons behind it.
    – Rubiksmoose
    Nov 5 at 17:18






  • 1




    I think this requires the tag rules-as-written. My first instinct is to say that beyond what rules say, it's up to the DM.
    – Masclins
    Nov 5 at 18:23








  • 3




    @Masclins You might want to read the following meta on the use of that tag: Does using the Rules as Written tag restrict answers to only using RAW?
    – Bloodcinder
    Nov 5 at 18:49






  • 15




    The target's head gets cut off in a non-lethal manner. After all, the Headless Horseman had to have gotten his start somewhere.
    – Mark
    Nov 6 at 0:01






  • 1




    This seems like a pretty poor primary weapon choice for such a paladin.
    – RBarryYoung
    Nov 7 at 0:49














  • 6




    @Dinopolis: This is an interesting point, however it is clearly an attempt to comment on a solution to the question. Thus, it belongs in an answer. We do not allow answering in the comments and comments attempting to do so are deleted. So please save the content in this comment if you think it is worthy by expanding on it in the answer section below. See this meta for our policy and the reasons behind it.
    – Rubiksmoose
    Nov 5 at 17:18






  • 1




    I think this requires the tag rules-as-written. My first instinct is to say that beyond what rules say, it's up to the DM.
    – Masclins
    Nov 5 at 18:23








  • 3




    @Masclins You might want to read the following meta on the use of that tag: Does using the Rules as Written tag restrict answers to only using RAW?
    – Bloodcinder
    Nov 5 at 18:49






  • 15




    The target's head gets cut off in a non-lethal manner. After all, the Headless Horseman had to have gotten his start somewhere.
    – Mark
    Nov 6 at 0:01






  • 1




    This seems like a pretty poor primary weapon choice for such a paladin.
    – RBarryYoung
    Nov 7 at 0:49








6




6




@Dinopolis: This is an interesting point, however it is clearly an attempt to comment on a solution to the question. Thus, it belongs in an answer. We do not allow answering in the comments and comments attempting to do so are deleted. So please save the content in this comment if you think it is worthy by expanding on it in the answer section below. See this meta for our policy and the reasons behind it.
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 5 at 17:18




@Dinopolis: This is an interesting point, however it is clearly an attempt to comment on a solution to the question. Thus, it belongs in an answer. We do not allow answering in the comments and comments attempting to do so are deleted. So please save the content in this comment if you think it is worthy by expanding on it in the answer section below. See this meta for our policy and the reasons behind it.
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 5 at 17:18




1




1




I think this requires the tag rules-as-written. My first instinct is to say that beyond what rules say, it's up to the DM.
– Masclins
Nov 5 at 18:23






I think this requires the tag rules-as-written. My first instinct is to say that beyond what rules say, it's up to the DM.
– Masclins
Nov 5 at 18:23






3




3




@Masclins You might want to read the following meta on the use of that tag: Does using the Rules as Written tag restrict answers to only using RAW?
– Bloodcinder
Nov 5 at 18:49




@Masclins You might want to read the following meta on the use of that tag: Does using the Rules as Written tag restrict answers to only using RAW?
– Bloodcinder
Nov 5 at 18:49




15




15




The target's head gets cut off in a non-lethal manner. After all, the Headless Horseman had to have gotten his start somewhere.
– Mark
Nov 6 at 0:01




The target's head gets cut off in a non-lethal manner. After all, the Headless Horseman had to have gotten his start somewhere.
– Mark
Nov 6 at 0:01




1




1




This seems like a pretty poor primary weapon choice for such a paladin.
– RBarryYoung
Nov 7 at 0:49




This seems like a pretty poor primary weapon choice for such a paladin.
– RBarryYoung
Nov 7 at 0:49










5 Answers
5






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up vote
53
down vote



accepted










Chopped off



The rules on knocking a creature out (PHB, pg. 198) state:




[...] When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt.




So this is what happens:




  1. You make your attack roll, and roll a natural 20.


  2. Vorpal weapon chops the head off; the description states:




    The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




    Is it still alive? Continue to 3, else stop.



  3. You deal the damage and extra slashing damage (only matters if it's a troll or anything else that can survive losing a head).



The head is still chopped off even he is not reduced to 0 HP. Note that the rule says you declare non-lethal damage when the damage is applied. The poor bloke's head is now off, unfortunately.






share|improve this answer



















  • 3




    I could see this being fun as a sort of "cursed sword" trope; the paladin can use the power of the vorpal weapon, at the risk of getting carried away.
    – nostalgk
    Nov 5 at 22:30






  • 3




    @nostalgk If the Paladin's rules don't allow killing, then he stops being a Paladin pretty quickly.
    – Nelson
    Nov 6 at 1:28


















up vote
31
down vote













The vorpal weapon severs the head.



You actually don't decide to be non-lethal before the roll. The decision is made when damage is dealt (emphasis mine):




Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. 




However, the vorpal weapon doesn't reduce a creature to 0 hit points. It kills them outright (emphasis mine):




When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




As such, rolling a 20 on an attack removes the head before you can even decide to knock the character unconcsious.






share|improve this answer




























    up vote
    17
    down vote













    The enemy is beheaded



    The vorpal effect is not optional



    The description for a vorpal sword does not indicate that the effect is at all optional:




    When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head. 




    When you roll a 20 the effect happens whether you want it to or not.



    Beheading happens before damage/knocking out can happen



    The rules for knocking a creature out say:




    When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




    The rules say nothing about giving the ability to negate non-optional harmful effects (such as the beheading effect) only that the creature can be knocked out instead of killed due to the damage dealt to them.



    The vorpal effect simply doesn't interact with the rules for knocking out at all. In fact, knocking out happens at the time damage is dealt, but the beheading effect actually happens as soon as the roll is revealed. So the heads would be rolling before the knocking out rules had any chance to even apply.



    Use a different weapon



    If the paladin wants to avoid killing things, perhaps they should not be using a weapon that beheads its victims 5% of the time.






    share|improve this answer






























      up vote
      15
      down vote













      The creature's head is cut off.



      The text of the vorpal sword's description leaves no doubt.




      When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads.




      It's not optional. If this is problematic, don't allow a pacifist to attune to a vorpal weapon: consider it a violation of the pacifist's character to even try to attune to the weapon, or declare that the weapon itself rejects the attunement attempt.






      share|improve this answer




























        up vote
        3
        down vote













        Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade.



        A character can strike with the pommel of a sword to go for subdual damage.



        In old-school D&D, subdual damage was basically you tracking all of the damage you normally would have done, but once the enemy reaches 0 they just yeild instead of die.



        To RP this out.. the Paladin would be using the Vorpal Sword. They could clearly cut the head off the opponent if they wanted to.



        But, instead, the Paladin is doing subdual attacks...



        Think of movies when two people are sparring, and one person is clearly showing dominance over the other, but isn't out-right slaughtering them. The Paladin would be swinging the blade and slapping the opponent with the flat-side of the blade. Or they're side-stepping and letting the opponent fall to the ground.



        In this situation, all the "Damage" being caused is just ego damage that is wearing down the opponent's morale.



        On the final blow, the Paladin chooses to stop the sword an inch from the opponent's neck and tells them to yield. Or, they knock the opponent out with the butt / pommel of the sword.



        Unless the actual blade edge of the vorpal sword connects, then no cutting is taking place, and thus no head-severing is taking place.. at all.



        And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon. So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing.



        If they want to spare an opponent, they can.



        But, this kind of subdual damage only works on intelligent foes without god levels of morale. EG: you can't do subdual damage on, say, a zombie. Or skeleton. Both of which (old-school D&D) have a morale of 12.. so they're unshakeable and just keep coming at you until you destroy them. But, on a Vampire you might. On a dragon you might. Any type of foe that knows it's own mortality, and could tell if it's being beaten and can realize the opponent is offering them a way out other then death.



        Unless the Vorpal Sword is also an Intelligent Sword that has sway over the owner and thus can force their will upon the user.. I would simply RP this as a character that has a massively destructive weapon and chooses to use it in alternate fashion.



        IE: I would role-play this instead of rules-lawyering it.. b/c the rules for the Vorpal Sword will tell you a 20 is a natural beheading.. but that's only if the person holding the sword was going for a death blow.






        share|improve this answer








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        • I think this is probably the correct answer. The vorpal weapon is a slashing weapon, everything hinges on slashing damage, slashing the sword etc. I think if you're trying to knock someone out then you're not doing slashing damage and therefore the vorpal effect (which only applies to slashing swords, as the description states), would not be permitted. Imagine if your vorpal sword was covered in thick foam cladding - would it still behead monsters? I don't think it would.
          – SLC
          Nov 7 at 10:26






        • 3




          "Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade." No, everyone is answering this RAW. There being a difference between hitting someone with the edge or the flat of a weapon isn't really in the rules, although presumably if you wanted to do something like that you could hardly expect the blade to have its normal to hit bonus and damage. "And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon" No, that's a 20 rolled by the player. The character or the weapon don't roll, they don't even know they are dice involved.
          – Cubic
          Nov 7 at 11:43






        • 2




          "So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing." doesn't follow, there are plenty of non-optional effects in D&D.
          – Cubic
          Nov 7 at 11:43






        • 2




          Also, essentially this entire answer boils down to "it's DM fiat to allow this", which is always a given.
          – Cubic
          Nov 7 at 11:44






        • 1




          The question is about a D&D 5e rules interaction, but this answer fails to address any rules in D&D 5e. Answer would be improved by justifying your stance using rules and design principles of D&D 5e.
          – Bloodcinder
          Nov 7 at 15:53











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        5 Answers
        5






        active

        oldest

        votes








        5 Answers
        5






        active

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        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes








        up vote
        53
        down vote



        accepted










        Chopped off



        The rules on knocking a creature out (PHB, pg. 198) state:




        [...] When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt.




        So this is what happens:




        1. You make your attack roll, and roll a natural 20.


        2. Vorpal weapon chops the head off; the description states:




          The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




          Is it still alive? Continue to 3, else stop.



        3. You deal the damage and extra slashing damage (only matters if it's a troll or anything else that can survive losing a head).



        The head is still chopped off even he is not reduced to 0 HP. Note that the rule says you declare non-lethal damage when the damage is applied. The poor bloke's head is now off, unfortunately.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 3




          I could see this being fun as a sort of "cursed sword" trope; the paladin can use the power of the vorpal weapon, at the risk of getting carried away.
          – nostalgk
          Nov 5 at 22:30






        • 3




          @nostalgk If the Paladin's rules don't allow killing, then he stops being a Paladin pretty quickly.
          – Nelson
          Nov 6 at 1:28















        up vote
        53
        down vote



        accepted










        Chopped off



        The rules on knocking a creature out (PHB, pg. 198) state:




        [...] When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt.




        So this is what happens:




        1. You make your attack roll, and roll a natural 20.


        2. Vorpal weapon chops the head off; the description states:




          The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




          Is it still alive? Continue to 3, else stop.



        3. You deal the damage and extra slashing damage (only matters if it's a troll or anything else that can survive losing a head).



        The head is still chopped off even he is not reduced to 0 HP. Note that the rule says you declare non-lethal damage when the damage is applied. The poor bloke's head is now off, unfortunately.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 3




          I could see this being fun as a sort of "cursed sword" trope; the paladin can use the power of the vorpal weapon, at the risk of getting carried away.
          – nostalgk
          Nov 5 at 22:30






        • 3




          @nostalgk If the Paladin's rules don't allow killing, then he stops being a Paladin pretty quickly.
          – Nelson
          Nov 6 at 1:28













        up vote
        53
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        53
        down vote



        accepted






        Chopped off



        The rules on knocking a creature out (PHB, pg. 198) state:




        [...] When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt.




        So this is what happens:




        1. You make your attack roll, and roll a natural 20.


        2. Vorpal weapon chops the head off; the description states:




          The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




          Is it still alive? Continue to 3, else stop.



        3. You deal the damage and extra slashing damage (only matters if it's a troll or anything else that can survive losing a head).



        The head is still chopped off even he is not reduced to 0 HP. Note that the rule says you declare non-lethal damage when the damage is applied. The poor bloke's head is now off, unfortunately.






        share|improve this answer














        Chopped off



        The rules on knocking a creature out (PHB, pg. 198) state:




        [...] When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt.




        So this is what happens:




        1. You make your attack roll, and roll a natural 20.


        2. Vorpal weapon chops the head off; the description states:




          The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




          Is it still alive? Continue to 3, else stop.



        3. You deal the damage and extra slashing damage (only matters if it's a troll or anything else that can survive losing a head).



        The head is still chopped off even he is not reduced to 0 HP. Note that the rule says you declare non-lethal damage when the damage is applied. The poor bloke's head is now off, unfortunately.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited Nov 6 at 1:35

























        answered Nov 5 at 15:00









        Vylix

        7,881229102




        7,881229102








        • 3




          I could see this being fun as a sort of "cursed sword" trope; the paladin can use the power of the vorpal weapon, at the risk of getting carried away.
          – nostalgk
          Nov 5 at 22:30






        • 3




          @nostalgk If the Paladin's rules don't allow killing, then he stops being a Paladin pretty quickly.
          – Nelson
          Nov 6 at 1:28














        • 3




          I could see this being fun as a sort of "cursed sword" trope; the paladin can use the power of the vorpal weapon, at the risk of getting carried away.
          – nostalgk
          Nov 5 at 22:30






        • 3




          @nostalgk If the Paladin's rules don't allow killing, then he stops being a Paladin pretty quickly.
          – Nelson
          Nov 6 at 1:28








        3




        3




        I could see this being fun as a sort of "cursed sword" trope; the paladin can use the power of the vorpal weapon, at the risk of getting carried away.
        – nostalgk
        Nov 5 at 22:30




        I could see this being fun as a sort of "cursed sword" trope; the paladin can use the power of the vorpal weapon, at the risk of getting carried away.
        – nostalgk
        Nov 5 at 22:30




        3




        3




        @nostalgk If the Paladin's rules don't allow killing, then he stops being a Paladin pretty quickly.
        – Nelson
        Nov 6 at 1:28




        @nostalgk If the Paladin's rules don't allow killing, then he stops being a Paladin pretty quickly.
        – Nelson
        Nov 6 at 1:28












        up vote
        31
        down vote













        The vorpal weapon severs the head.



        You actually don't decide to be non-lethal before the roll. The decision is made when damage is dealt (emphasis mine):




        Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. 




        However, the vorpal weapon doesn't reduce a creature to 0 hit points. It kills them outright (emphasis mine):




        When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




        As such, rolling a 20 on an attack removes the head before you can even decide to knock the character unconcsious.






        share|improve this answer

























          up vote
          31
          down vote













          The vorpal weapon severs the head.



          You actually don't decide to be non-lethal before the roll. The decision is made when damage is dealt (emphasis mine):




          Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. 




          However, the vorpal weapon doesn't reduce a creature to 0 hit points. It kills them outright (emphasis mine):




          When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




          As such, rolling a 20 on an attack removes the head before you can even decide to knock the character unconcsious.






          share|improve this answer























            up vote
            31
            down vote










            up vote
            31
            down vote









            The vorpal weapon severs the head.



            You actually don't decide to be non-lethal before the roll. The decision is made when damage is dealt (emphasis mine):




            Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. 




            However, the vorpal weapon doesn't reduce a creature to 0 hit points. It kills them outright (emphasis mine):




            When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




            As such, rolling a 20 on an attack removes the head before you can even decide to knock the character unconcsious.






            share|improve this answer












            The vorpal weapon severs the head.



            You actually don't decide to be non-lethal before the roll. The decision is made when damage is dealt (emphasis mine):




            Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. 




            However, the vorpal weapon doesn't reduce a creature to 0 hit points. It kills them outright (emphasis mine):




            When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head.




            As such, rolling a 20 on an attack removes the head before you can even decide to knock the character unconcsious.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Nov 5 at 15:00









            David Coffron

            31.1k2108216




            31.1k2108216






















                up vote
                17
                down vote













                The enemy is beheaded



                The vorpal effect is not optional



                The description for a vorpal sword does not indicate that the effect is at all optional:




                When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head. 




                When you roll a 20 the effect happens whether you want it to or not.



                Beheading happens before damage/knocking out can happen



                The rules for knocking a creature out say:




                When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




                The rules say nothing about giving the ability to negate non-optional harmful effects (such as the beheading effect) only that the creature can be knocked out instead of killed due to the damage dealt to them.



                The vorpal effect simply doesn't interact with the rules for knocking out at all. In fact, knocking out happens at the time damage is dealt, but the beheading effect actually happens as soon as the roll is revealed. So the heads would be rolling before the knocking out rules had any chance to even apply.



                Use a different weapon



                If the paladin wants to avoid killing things, perhaps they should not be using a weapon that beheads its victims 5% of the time.






                share|improve this answer



























                  up vote
                  17
                  down vote













                  The enemy is beheaded



                  The vorpal effect is not optional



                  The description for a vorpal sword does not indicate that the effect is at all optional:




                  When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head. 




                  When you roll a 20 the effect happens whether you want it to or not.



                  Beheading happens before damage/knocking out can happen



                  The rules for knocking a creature out say:




                  When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




                  The rules say nothing about giving the ability to negate non-optional harmful effects (such as the beheading effect) only that the creature can be knocked out instead of killed due to the damage dealt to them.



                  The vorpal effect simply doesn't interact with the rules for knocking out at all. In fact, knocking out happens at the time damage is dealt, but the beheading effect actually happens as soon as the roll is revealed. So the heads would be rolling before the knocking out rules had any chance to even apply.



                  Use a different weapon



                  If the paladin wants to avoid killing things, perhaps they should not be using a weapon that beheads its victims 5% of the time.






                  share|improve this answer

























                    up vote
                    17
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    17
                    down vote









                    The enemy is beheaded



                    The vorpal effect is not optional



                    The description for a vorpal sword does not indicate that the effect is at all optional:




                    When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head. 




                    When you roll a 20 the effect happens whether you want it to or not.



                    Beheading happens before damage/knocking out can happen



                    The rules for knocking a creature out say:




                    When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




                    The rules say nothing about giving the ability to negate non-optional harmful effects (such as the beheading effect) only that the creature can be knocked out instead of killed due to the damage dealt to them.



                    The vorpal effect simply doesn't interact with the rules for knocking out at all. In fact, knocking out happens at the time damage is dealt, but the beheading effect actually happens as soon as the roll is revealed. So the heads would be rolling before the knocking out rules had any chance to even apply.



                    Use a different weapon



                    If the paladin wants to avoid killing things, perhaps they should not be using a weapon that beheads its victims 5% of the time.






                    share|improve this answer














                    The enemy is beheaded



                    The vorpal effect is not optional



                    The description for a vorpal sword does not indicate that the effect is at all optional:




                    When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads. The creature dies if it can't survive without the lost head. 




                    When you roll a 20 the effect happens whether you want it to or not.



                    Beheading happens before damage/knocking out can happen



                    The rules for knocking a creature out say:




                    When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




                    The rules say nothing about giving the ability to negate non-optional harmful effects (such as the beheading effect) only that the creature can be knocked out instead of killed due to the damage dealt to them.



                    The vorpal effect simply doesn't interact with the rules for knocking out at all. In fact, knocking out happens at the time damage is dealt, but the beheading effect actually happens as soon as the roll is revealed. So the heads would be rolling before the knocking out rules had any chance to even apply.



                    Use a different weapon



                    If the paladin wants to avoid killing things, perhaps they should not be using a weapon that beheads its victims 5% of the time.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited Nov 5 at 15:15

























                    answered Nov 5 at 15:01









                    Rubiksmoose

                    42.8k5212326




                    42.8k5212326






















                        up vote
                        15
                        down vote













                        The creature's head is cut off.



                        The text of the vorpal sword's description leaves no doubt.




                        When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads.




                        It's not optional. If this is problematic, don't allow a pacifist to attune to a vorpal weapon: consider it a violation of the pacifist's character to even try to attune to the weapon, or declare that the weapon itself rejects the attunement attempt.






                        share|improve this answer

























                          up vote
                          15
                          down vote













                          The creature's head is cut off.



                          The text of the vorpal sword's description leaves no doubt.




                          When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads.




                          It's not optional. If this is problematic, don't allow a pacifist to attune to a vorpal weapon: consider it a violation of the pacifist's character to even try to attune to the weapon, or declare that the weapon itself rejects the attunement attempt.






                          share|improve this answer























                            up vote
                            15
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            15
                            down vote









                            The creature's head is cut off.



                            The text of the vorpal sword's description leaves no doubt.




                            When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads.




                            It's not optional. If this is problematic, don't allow a pacifist to attune to a vorpal weapon: consider it a violation of the pacifist's character to even try to attune to the weapon, or declare that the weapon itself rejects the attunement attempt.






                            share|improve this answer












                            The creature's head is cut off.



                            The text of the vorpal sword's description leaves no doubt.




                            When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature's heads.




                            It's not optional. If this is problematic, don't allow a pacifist to attune to a vorpal weapon: consider it a violation of the pacifist's character to even try to attune to the weapon, or declare that the weapon itself rejects the attunement attempt.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered Nov 5 at 15:01









                            Bloodcinder

                            17.6k257114




                            17.6k257114






















                                up vote
                                3
                                down vote













                                Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade.



                                A character can strike with the pommel of a sword to go for subdual damage.



                                In old-school D&D, subdual damage was basically you tracking all of the damage you normally would have done, but once the enemy reaches 0 they just yeild instead of die.



                                To RP this out.. the Paladin would be using the Vorpal Sword. They could clearly cut the head off the opponent if they wanted to.



                                But, instead, the Paladin is doing subdual attacks...



                                Think of movies when two people are sparring, and one person is clearly showing dominance over the other, but isn't out-right slaughtering them. The Paladin would be swinging the blade and slapping the opponent with the flat-side of the blade. Or they're side-stepping and letting the opponent fall to the ground.



                                In this situation, all the "Damage" being caused is just ego damage that is wearing down the opponent's morale.



                                On the final blow, the Paladin chooses to stop the sword an inch from the opponent's neck and tells them to yield. Or, they knock the opponent out with the butt / pommel of the sword.



                                Unless the actual blade edge of the vorpal sword connects, then no cutting is taking place, and thus no head-severing is taking place.. at all.



                                And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon. So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing.



                                If they want to spare an opponent, they can.



                                But, this kind of subdual damage only works on intelligent foes without god levels of morale. EG: you can't do subdual damage on, say, a zombie. Or skeleton. Both of which (old-school D&D) have a morale of 12.. so they're unshakeable and just keep coming at you until you destroy them. But, on a Vampire you might. On a dragon you might. Any type of foe that knows it's own mortality, and could tell if it's being beaten and can realize the opponent is offering them a way out other then death.



                                Unless the Vorpal Sword is also an Intelligent Sword that has sway over the owner and thus can force their will upon the user.. I would simply RP this as a character that has a massively destructive weapon and chooses to use it in alternate fashion.



                                IE: I would role-play this instead of rules-lawyering it.. b/c the rules for the Vorpal Sword will tell you a 20 is a natural beheading.. but that's only if the person holding the sword was going for a death blow.






                                share|improve this answer








                                New contributor




                                blahblah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.


















                                • I think this is probably the correct answer. The vorpal weapon is a slashing weapon, everything hinges on slashing damage, slashing the sword etc. I think if you're trying to knock someone out then you're not doing slashing damage and therefore the vorpal effect (which only applies to slashing swords, as the description states), would not be permitted. Imagine if your vorpal sword was covered in thick foam cladding - would it still behead monsters? I don't think it would.
                                  – SLC
                                  Nov 7 at 10:26






                                • 3




                                  "Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade." No, everyone is answering this RAW. There being a difference between hitting someone with the edge or the flat of a weapon isn't really in the rules, although presumably if you wanted to do something like that you could hardly expect the blade to have its normal to hit bonus and damage. "And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon" No, that's a 20 rolled by the player. The character or the weapon don't roll, they don't even know they are dice involved.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:43






                                • 2




                                  "So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing." doesn't follow, there are plenty of non-optional effects in D&D.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:43






                                • 2




                                  Also, essentially this entire answer boils down to "it's DM fiat to allow this", which is always a given.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:44






                                • 1




                                  The question is about a D&D 5e rules interaction, but this answer fails to address any rules in D&D 5e. Answer would be improved by justifying your stance using rules and design principles of D&D 5e.
                                  – Bloodcinder
                                  Nov 7 at 15:53















                                up vote
                                3
                                down vote













                                Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade.



                                A character can strike with the pommel of a sword to go for subdual damage.



                                In old-school D&D, subdual damage was basically you tracking all of the damage you normally would have done, but once the enemy reaches 0 they just yeild instead of die.



                                To RP this out.. the Paladin would be using the Vorpal Sword. They could clearly cut the head off the opponent if they wanted to.



                                But, instead, the Paladin is doing subdual attacks...



                                Think of movies when two people are sparring, and one person is clearly showing dominance over the other, but isn't out-right slaughtering them. The Paladin would be swinging the blade and slapping the opponent with the flat-side of the blade. Or they're side-stepping and letting the opponent fall to the ground.



                                In this situation, all the "Damage" being caused is just ego damage that is wearing down the opponent's morale.



                                On the final blow, the Paladin chooses to stop the sword an inch from the opponent's neck and tells them to yield. Or, they knock the opponent out with the butt / pommel of the sword.



                                Unless the actual blade edge of the vorpal sword connects, then no cutting is taking place, and thus no head-severing is taking place.. at all.



                                And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon. So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing.



                                If they want to spare an opponent, they can.



                                But, this kind of subdual damage only works on intelligent foes without god levels of morale. EG: you can't do subdual damage on, say, a zombie. Or skeleton. Both of which (old-school D&D) have a morale of 12.. so they're unshakeable and just keep coming at you until you destroy them. But, on a Vampire you might. On a dragon you might. Any type of foe that knows it's own mortality, and could tell if it's being beaten and can realize the opponent is offering them a way out other then death.



                                Unless the Vorpal Sword is also an Intelligent Sword that has sway over the owner and thus can force their will upon the user.. I would simply RP this as a character that has a massively destructive weapon and chooses to use it in alternate fashion.



                                IE: I would role-play this instead of rules-lawyering it.. b/c the rules for the Vorpal Sword will tell you a 20 is a natural beheading.. but that's only if the person holding the sword was going for a death blow.






                                share|improve this answer








                                New contributor




                                blahblah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.


















                                • I think this is probably the correct answer. The vorpal weapon is a slashing weapon, everything hinges on slashing damage, slashing the sword etc. I think if you're trying to knock someone out then you're not doing slashing damage and therefore the vorpal effect (which only applies to slashing swords, as the description states), would not be permitted. Imagine if your vorpal sword was covered in thick foam cladding - would it still behead monsters? I don't think it would.
                                  – SLC
                                  Nov 7 at 10:26






                                • 3




                                  "Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade." No, everyone is answering this RAW. There being a difference between hitting someone with the edge or the flat of a weapon isn't really in the rules, although presumably if you wanted to do something like that you could hardly expect the blade to have its normal to hit bonus and damage. "And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon" No, that's a 20 rolled by the player. The character or the weapon don't roll, they don't even know they are dice involved.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:43






                                • 2




                                  "So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing." doesn't follow, there are plenty of non-optional effects in D&D.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:43






                                • 2




                                  Also, essentially this entire answer boils down to "it's DM fiat to allow this", which is always a given.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:44






                                • 1




                                  The question is about a D&D 5e rules interaction, but this answer fails to address any rules in D&D 5e. Answer would be improved by justifying your stance using rules and design principles of D&D 5e.
                                  – Bloodcinder
                                  Nov 7 at 15:53













                                up vote
                                3
                                down vote










                                up vote
                                3
                                down vote









                                Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade.



                                A character can strike with the pommel of a sword to go for subdual damage.



                                In old-school D&D, subdual damage was basically you tracking all of the damage you normally would have done, but once the enemy reaches 0 they just yeild instead of die.



                                To RP this out.. the Paladin would be using the Vorpal Sword. They could clearly cut the head off the opponent if they wanted to.



                                But, instead, the Paladin is doing subdual attacks...



                                Think of movies when two people are sparring, and one person is clearly showing dominance over the other, but isn't out-right slaughtering them. The Paladin would be swinging the blade and slapping the opponent with the flat-side of the blade. Or they're side-stepping and letting the opponent fall to the ground.



                                In this situation, all the "Damage" being caused is just ego damage that is wearing down the opponent's morale.



                                On the final blow, the Paladin chooses to stop the sword an inch from the opponent's neck and tells them to yield. Or, they knock the opponent out with the butt / pommel of the sword.



                                Unless the actual blade edge of the vorpal sword connects, then no cutting is taking place, and thus no head-severing is taking place.. at all.



                                And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon. So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing.



                                If they want to spare an opponent, they can.



                                But, this kind of subdual damage only works on intelligent foes without god levels of morale. EG: you can't do subdual damage on, say, a zombie. Or skeleton. Both of which (old-school D&D) have a morale of 12.. so they're unshakeable and just keep coming at you until you destroy them. But, on a Vampire you might. On a dragon you might. Any type of foe that knows it's own mortality, and could tell if it's being beaten and can realize the opponent is offering them a way out other then death.



                                Unless the Vorpal Sword is also an Intelligent Sword that has sway over the owner and thus can force their will upon the user.. I would simply RP this as a character that has a massively destructive weapon and chooses to use it in alternate fashion.



                                IE: I would role-play this instead of rules-lawyering it.. b/c the rules for the Vorpal Sword will tell you a 20 is a natural beheading.. but that's only if the person holding the sword was going for a death blow.






                                share|improve this answer








                                New contributor




                                blahblah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade.



                                A character can strike with the pommel of a sword to go for subdual damage.



                                In old-school D&D, subdual damage was basically you tracking all of the damage you normally would have done, but once the enemy reaches 0 they just yeild instead of die.



                                To RP this out.. the Paladin would be using the Vorpal Sword. They could clearly cut the head off the opponent if they wanted to.



                                But, instead, the Paladin is doing subdual attacks...



                                Think of movies when two people are sparring, and one person is clearly showing dominance over the other, but isn't out-right slaughtering them. The Paladin would be swinging the blade and slapping the opponent with the flat-side of the blade. Or they're side-stepping and letting the opponent fall to the ground.



                                In this situation, all the "Damage" being caused is just ego damage that is wearing down the opponent's morale.



                                On the final blow, the Paladin chooses to stop the sword an inch from the opponent's neck and tells them to yield. Or, they knock the opponent out with the butt / pommel of the sword.



                                Unless the actual blade edge of the vorpal sword connects, then no cutting is taking place, and thus no head-severing is taking place.. at all.



                                And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon. So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing.



                                If they want to spare an opponent, they can.



                                But, this kind of subdual damage only works on intelligent foes without god levels of morale. EG: you can't do subdual damage on, say, a zombie. Or skeleton. Both of which (old-school D&D) have a morale of 12.. so they're unshakeable and just keep coming at you until you destroy them. But, on a Vampire you might. On a dragon you might. Any type of foe that knows it's own mortality, and could tell if it's being beaten and can realize the opponent is offering them a way out other then death.



                                Unless the Vorpal Sword is also an Intelligent Sword that has sway over the owner and thus can force their will upon the user.. I would simply RP this as a character that has a massively destructive weapon and chooses to use it in alternate fashion.



                                IE: I would role-play this instead of rules-lawyering it.. b/c the rules for the Vorpal Sword will tell you a 20 is a natural beheading.. but that's only if the person holding the sword was going for a death blow.







                                share|improve this answer








                                New contributor




                                blahblah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer






                                New contributor




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                                answered Nov 6 at 21:18









                                blahblah

                                551




                                551




                                New contributor




                                blahblah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                New contributor





                                blahblah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                blahblah is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.












                                • I think this is probably the correct answer. The vorpal weapon is a slashing weapon, everything hinges on slashing damage, slashing the sword etc. I think if you're trying to knock someone out then you're not doing slashing damage and therefore the vorpal effect (which only applies to slashing swords, as the description states), would not be permitted. Imagine if your vorpal sword was covered in thick foam cladding - would it still behead monsters? I don't think it would.
                                  – SLC
                                  Nov 7 at 10:26






                                • 3




                                  "Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade." No, everyone is answering this RAW. There being a difference between hitting someone with the edge or the flat of a weapon isn't really in the rules, although presumably if you wanted to do something like that you could hardly expect the blade to have its normal to hit bonus and damage. "And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon" No, that's a 20 rolled by the player. The character or the weapon don't roll, they don't even know they are dice involved.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:43






                                • 2




                                  "So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing." doesn't follow, there are plenty of non-optional effects in D&D.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:43






                                • 2




                                  Also, essentially this entire answer boils down to "it's DM fiat to allow this", which is always a given.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:44






                                • 1




                                  The question is about a D&D 5e rules interaction, but this answer fails to address any rules in D&D 5e. Answer would be improved by justifying your stance using rules and design principles of D&D 5e.
                                  – Bloodcinder
                                  Nov 7 at 15:53


















                                • I think this is probably the correct answer. The vorpal weapon is a slashing weapon, everything hinges on slashing damage, slashing the sword etc. I think if you're trying to knock someone out then you're not doing slashing damage and therefore the vorpal effect (which only applies to slashing swords, as the description states), would not be permitted. Imagine if your vorpal sword was covered in thick foam cladding - would it still behead monsters? I don't think it would.
                                  – SLC
                                  Nov 7 at 10:26






                                • 3




                                  "Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade." No, everyone is answering this RAW. There being a difference between hitting someone with the edge or the flat of a weapon isn't really in the rules, although presumably if you wanted to do something like that you could hardly expect the blade to have its normal to hit bonus and damage. "And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon" No, that's a 20 rolled by the player. The character or the weapon don't roll, they don't even know they are dice involved.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:43






                                • 2




                                  "So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing." doesn't follow, there are plenty of non-optional effects in D&D.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:43






                                • 2




                                  Also, essentially this entire answer boils down to "it's DM fiat to allow this", which is always a given.
                                  – Cubic
                                  Nov 7 at 11:44






                                • 1




                                  The question is about a D&D 5e rules interaction, but this answer fails to address any rules in D&D 5e. Answer would be improved by justifying your stance using rules and design principles of D&D 5e.
                                  – Bloodcinder
                                  Nov 7 at 15:53
















                                I think this is probably the correct answer. The vorpal weapon is a slashing weapon, everything hinges on slashing damage, slashing the sword etc. I think if you're trying to knock someone out then you're not doing slashing damage and therefore the vorpal effect (which only applies to slashing swords, as the description states), would not be permitted. Imagine if your vorpal sword was covered in thick foam cladding - would it still behead monsters? I don't think it would.
                                – SLC
                                Nov 7 at 10:26




                                I think this is probably the correct answer. The vorpal weapon is a slashing weapon, everything hinges on slashing damage, slashing the sword etc. I think if you're trying to knock someone out then you're not doing slashing damage and therefore the vorpal effect (which only applies to slashing swords, as the description states), would not be permitted. Imagine if your vorpal sword was covered in thick foam cladding - would it still behead monsters? I don't think it would.
                                – SLC
                                Nov 7 at 10:26




                                3




                                3




                                "Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade." No, everyone is answering this RAW. There being a difference between hitting someone with the edge or the flat of a weapon isn't really in the rules, although presumably if you wanted to do something like that you could hardly expect the blade to have its normal to hit bonus and damage. "And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon" No, that's a 20 rolled by the player. The character or the weapon don't roll, they don't even know they are dice involved.
                                – Cubic
                                Nov 7 at 11:43




                                "Everyone is assuming the Paladin struck with the blade." No, everyone is answering this RAW. There being a difference between hitting someone with the edge or the flat of a weapon isn't really in the rules, although presumably if you wanted to do something like that you could hardly expect the blade to have its normal to hit bonus and damage. "And on a roll of a 20... that is the CHARACTER rolling a 20, not a weapon" No, that's a 20 rolled by the player. The character or the weapon don't roll, they don't even know they are dice involved.
                                – Cubic
                                Nov 7 at 11:43




                                2




                                2




                                "So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing." doesn't follow, there are plenty of non-optional effects in D&D.
                                – Cubic
                                Nov 7 at 11:43




                                "So, the character (and thus the player) has say in what they're doing." doesn't follow, there are plenty of non-optional effects in D&D.
                                – Cubic
                                Nov 7 at 11:43




                                2




                                2




                                Also, essentially this entire answer boils down to "it's DM fiat to allow this", which is always a given.
                                – Cubic
                                Nov 7 at 11:44




                                Also, essentially this entire answer boils down to "it's DM fiat to allow this", which is always a given.
                                – Cubic
                                Nov 7 at 11:44




                                1




                                1




                                The question is about a D&D 5e rules interaction, but this answer fails to address any rules in D&D 5e. Answer would be improved by justifying your stance using rules and design principles of D&D 5e.
                                – Bloodcinder
                                Nov 7 at 15:53




                                The question is about a D&D 5e rules interaction, but this answer fails to address any rules in D&D 5e. Answer would be improved by justifying your stance using rules and design principles of D&D 5e.
                                – Bloodcinder
                                Nov 7 at 15:53


















                                 

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